Short Chambered 12's.

[B. Dudley]

A bit off topic here, but just for kicks of it, I roughly measured my Late 1920's vintage Fox Sterlingworth 12g. 30" IM/XF tonight and the chambers appear to measure 3" to 3-1/8" at the start of the forcing cones. Now that seems odd to me. I will ahve to have them checked with a proper chamber guage.

[J.B. Books]

I meant to put this here but had both reloading forum and this one open with similiar conversations.

I have been thinking about this short chamber 12ga issue a bit and I think it comes down to what is best and what you can get away with. IMO what is best is to use shells the same length as the chamber, preferably low pressure factory shells or reloads generating the pressures of shells in the period the gun was made. Another option is having the chamber's lengthened provided you have sufficient barrel wall thickness and shoot 2 3/4 shells. I know that is heresy but here is how it goes when you go to sell your gun; the potential buyer will use short chambers against you as a negative to get the price down, or they will use the lengthened chambers against you to get the price down. If the gun is a lower grade or has lost it orginality by a restock what is the harm? That decision is best made after the gun is classified as a shooter rather than an investment. What you can get away with is another matter, good sound Parkers can take heavy loads whether the barrels are composite or fluid steel. How many guns did Sherman Bell try to blow up and failed and how much pressure did it take to blow up a Dam GH and Vulcan Steel VH, near 32,000 psi. I choose to treat my guns kindly with lower pressure reloads, some of my guns had their chambers lengthen others not. They are all in tact and have suffered all their wear and tear by being taken out in the field not from shooting them with any load. Remember high pressure doesn't crack stocks, heavy recoil and loose stock screws crack stocks so I try to keep my use of heavy loads to a minimum and check each gun and tighten screws if needed. Good luck everyone.

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

Brian,

Old forcing cones were about a half inch long. Modern forcing cones are longer to reduce perceived recoil. Modern cones are typically 1 3/4" to 3 1/4".

If the old Fox has long chambers and short cones then while they may not be original, they are likely from long, long ago.

Being a Sterlingworth rather than a graded Fox the long chambers are likely not factory original. Back in the day long chambers were ordered for longer shells with extra wadding for pigeon and trap shooting.

Mark

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

......Parker intended chambers to be shorter than the fired cartridge, and that the minimal pressure rise from a slightly long cartridge extending into the forcing cone is beneficial and intended......

Although evidence exists that Parker intended chambers to be shorter than a fired shell there is also evidence ammunition manufacturers disagreed with that practice and they provided warning labels to that effect.

Vintage Remington Express 3 3/4 dram, 1 1/4 ounce 2 3/4" paper shell, star crimp I believe with card glued on top.





"These shells must not be used in guns having damascus or twist steel barrels, or chambers shorter than 2 3/4 inches"

Warning on the left side said it is dangerous to place 12ga shells in 8 gauge guns..... can't recall seeing that warning before over the more usual 20ga in a 12ga warning.

[charlie cleveland]

like the saying do not place 12 ga shalls in 8 ga guns...also like the one do not place 16 ga shells in 10 ga guns.... they shoulda said this aboutr the 20 ga too on the 10 ga because some 20 ga will stick in a 10 ga barrel if its tight choked...but most all of us have enough sense to not be sticking odd ga shells in wrong ga guns...but i do like to read these old warnings... charlie