.410

I just revisited the doublegunshop site and logged in as RWTF- and posted a question about an Ithaca 12 NID for sale. I have not received any notification from Dave Weber that my "membership" is suspended for any reasons. I would hope that you or any other of my "detractors" who seem to object to my long and rambling posts and replies, both here on the PGCA and on the DoubleGunShop, would take the time to visit that site and see that I am telling the truth. I have not been "banned" or suspended- if truth be told, and here I am violating one of my salient rules- that being- "What happens on the PGCA Forum stays on the PGCA Forum and does NOT transpose to any other Forum, ditto in vice versa from the DoubleGunShop forum to here-- But from being a member there for about 4 years, I might think that "Homeless Joe" and now the hapless Mr. Ed Good might also be "in the running" if Dave Weber is, indeed, compiling a "Fecal roster" of obstreperous members whom he wishes to evict from the premises, as it were.

I have tried to 'make the peace" with you for a long time, apparently to know avail howsome-ever. IMO, you came very close to calling me a "liar' about the two AH 12 Parkers that my late maternal grandfather left me in his estate- you demanded fotos and evidence- I do not know, nor really care, how many of those fine guns were made, nor do I ever wish to display fotos of them here, or take them to any shows or side-by-side shootfests- that is my option, and if i had it to do here over again, I would have just mentioned the two "plain Jane" 12 Trojans I owned in years past and left the AH "dogs to sleep"==

Now, for some strange reasoning beyond my ken, you continue to post what I might call a 'patent untruth' and like a Philadelphia lawyer in Court- the proof is at hand. All you needed to do to resolve this "issue" in an amicable manner suitable, IMO, for a LIFE MEMBER OF THIS AUGUST ASSN.- is to take my suggestion and visit the Double Gun Shop forum and look up my recent post (made about 10 minutes ago) re: the Ithaca NID 12. If that is NOT sufficient proof to you that you unfounded staements are false and inaccurate, then I don't know what it will take to satisy you.

What is it about me that 'sets you off in such a tizzy' Bill. Is it the fact that I inherited two fairly good Parker 12 bores, guns that perhaps you and some of the other "Eastern Seaboard Mafia" here might have had to buy? That is pure "luck of the draw"- if I had a brother, along with 6 sisters, he would have received one of those two Parkers I am sure.

Yes I ramble. Is that a crime in your lexicon. I sell a fair number of guns and gun parts, those that are permitted of course, to brother members here on the PGCA, and always offer a 100 & return NQA-- I have yet had one single item returned or questioned as to its accuracy after it was received. I also have between 60 and 70 friends through the PGCA, I haven't looked at your profile for that detail, assume you have at least that many or more, being both a Lifer and a member since 3rd. grade. Impressive.

We do no good to the growth of the PGCA by having this 'dirty linen' aired. What if you were a new prospective member here, and you came across this thread, which, I will admit, has gotten waaaaaaaay outta hand (IMO anyway) what would you say about two grown men, both of whom served our Country- you in the Army's 82nd A/B Div- and myself in the USMC, having such a public 'to do", reminds me of the line from a Rogers & Hammerstein musical score-- "A lot of tempest in a pot of tea"__

So, what do you say here, Bill. Let's 'bury the hatchet' at least for the good of the PGCA, and leave the DoubleGunShop forum out of our discussions here, as it does not work. I'll still offer to buy you a drink when Mae and I visit my baby sister and her husband in Germantown, MD.

I bear you no ill will- as Confucious once so wisely said: "A man who carries a grudge will end up digging two graves"! I don't know about you, but I'll save my digging energy for pit blinds for goose hunting!

[Bill Murphy]

Francis, I did not read your last post, but I assume that you incorrectly think that I am referring to you as the person who was suspended over on the other forum. It is not you whom I am referring to.

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Francis, I did not read your last post, but I assume that you incorrectly think that I am referring to you as the person who was suspended over on the other forum. It is not you whom I am referring to.

And as what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander, and as I just "adjusted' the syntax of brother Suponski's recent article in PP, allow me to extend the same courtesy to your reply- It is NOT proper grammer to end a sentence in a preposition. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to write "It is not you to whom I am referring"--

I hope the possible proof reading job for our PP that Dave Suponski alluded to in his kind reply to me becomes available. I would be very pleased to accept that post if so offered. -30-

[AmarilloMike]

This thread has been hijacked and gone twice around the world now so:

"Is it acceptable to end a sentence in a preposition?"

From Wikipedia / Wiki Answers:

Yes. It is perfectly acceptable.

There is a very common misunderstanding that, in proper English grammar, one should never end a sentence with a preposition (of, at, on, in, etc.).

It is perfectly acceptable to end a sentence with a preposition, as long as that preposition is critical to the meaning of the sentence.

I am Edmond Weiss, author of of the book referred to as Writing Remedies, but which is actually called 100 Writing Remedies. Although this book does contain the passage "Do not end a sentence with a preposition," in fact I never wrote that sentence. What I wrote was: A preposition is a word you should not end a sentence with. The young copy editor at Oryx Press did not get the joke, replaced my sentence with the one you quoted, and refused to follow my instructions to put things back. There is not now, nor has there ever been, any rule against ending an English sentence with a preposition.


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_prop...#ixzz1aIaDUfMh

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_prop..._a_preposition

Addtionally:



Some sentences do properly end with a preposition The learnèd fools set you up. Do not give in. This phony rule is nothing we must put up with. Latin sentences may not end with a preposition, but it is perfectly correct in English.

There is nothing grammatically incorrect, at least in the English language, about ending a sentence with a preposition. Technically, this is referred to as "preposition stranding", and it occurs any time a preposition and its object are separated, not just at the end of a sentence (Note, the separation of the preposition and its object must be by more than an adjective or two to qualify as preposition stranding: "with a sunny disposition" is not preposition stranding. Also, preposition stranding usually involves reversing the usual order, i.e., placing the object somewhere before the preoposition.) But wherever in the sentence it occurs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with preposition stranding. What is wrong is to rearrange a sentence in a way that makes it cumbersome or less understandable, all in an effort to follow this false rule.

One example sentence commonly (and deceitfully) used to show that preposition-stranding is incorrect is "Where is the library at?". This sentence is absolutely incorrect, but not because it ends with a preposition. It is incorrect because "at" is not needed. To see this, simply rearrange the sentence by putting "where" after "at", as in "The library is at where?" Doesn't make sense, does it? If you asked the question this way, you would omit "at", and so it is not necessary. However, if I instead asked "Which building is the library in?", that would be perfectly acceptable.

By the way, though the first answerer is correct in his/her conclusion, I need to point out that neither of the first two sentences given as examples actually ends with a preposition. Though "up" and "in" can be used as prepositions, they are not prepositions the way they are used in those two sentences, but are instead adverbs. Also, in the third sentence, though "with" is a preposition, "up" is not. The way you can tell is that a preposition always has an object, somewhere in the sentence, even if it's not immediately after the preposition.

Here are some better examples of grammatically-correct English sentences that end with prepositions:

What are you talking about? ("about" is the preposition, "what" is the object)

That's the girl I'm going out with. ("with" and "that")

What are you looking at? ("at" and "what")

Put this back where you got it from. ("from" and "where (you got it)")

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_should...#ixzz1aIb8ZEqq

Best,

Mike

Originally Posted by Mike Shepherd

This thread has been hijacked and gone twice around the world now so:

"Is it acceptable to end a sentence in a preposition?"

From Wikipedia / Wiki Answers:

Yes. It is perfectly acceptable.

There is a very common misunderstanding that, in proper English grammar, one should never end a sentence with a preposition (of, at, on, in, etc.).

It is perfectly acceptable to end a sentence with a preposition, as long as that preposition is critical to the meaning of the sentence.

I am Edmond Weiss, author of of the book referred to as Writing Remedies, but which is actually called 100 Writing Remedies. Although this book does contain the passage "Do not end a sentence with a preposition," in fact I never wrote that sentence. What I wrote was: A preposition is a word you should not end a sentence with. The young copy editor at Oryx Press did not get the joke, replaced my sentence with the one you quoted, and refused to follow my instructions to put things back. There is not now, nor has there ever been, any rule against ending an English sentence with a preposition.


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_prop...#ixzz1aIaDUfMh

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_prop..._a_preposition

Addtionally:



Some sentences do properly end with a preposition The learnèd fools set you up. Do not give in. This phony rule is nothing we must put up with. Latin sentences may not end with a preposition, but it is perfectly correct in English.

There is nothing grammatically incorrect, at least in the English language, about ending a sentence with a preposition. Technically, this is referred to as "preposition stranding", and it occurs any time a preposition and its object are separated, not just at the end of a sentence (Note, the separation of the preposition and its object must be by more than an adjective or two to qualify as preposition stranding: "with a sunny disposition" is not preposition stranding. Also, preposition stranding usually involves reversing the usual order, i.e., placing the object somewhere before the preoposition.) But wherever in the sentence it occurs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with preposition stranding. What is wrong is to rearrange a sentence in a way that makes it cumbersome or less understandable, all in an effort to follow this false rule.

One example sentence commonly (and deceitfully) used to show that preposition-stranding is incorrect is "Where is the library at?". This sentence is absolutely incorrect, but not because it ends with a preposition. It is incorrect because "at" is not needed. To see this, simply rearrange the sentence by putting "where" after "at", as in "The library is at where?" Doesn't make sense, does it? If you asked the question this way, you would omit "at", and so it is not necessary. However, if I instead asked "Which building is the library in?", that would be perfectly acceptable.

By the way, though the first answerer is correct in his/her conclusion, I need to point out that neither of the first two sentences given as examples actually ends with a preposition. Though "up" and "in" can be used as prepositions, they are not prepositions the way they are used in those two sentences, but are instead adverbs. Also, in the third sentence, though "with" is a preposition, "up" is not. The way you can tell is that a preposition always has an object, somewhere in the sentence, even if it's not immediately after the preposition.

Here are some better examples of grammatically-correct English sentences that end with prepositions:

What are you talking about? ("about" is the preposition, "what" is the object)

That's the girl I'm going out with. ("with" and "that")

What are you looking at? ("at" and "what")

Put this back where you got it from. ("from" and "where (you got it)")

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_shouldn't_you_end_a_sentence_with_a_prepositio n#ixzz1aIb8ZEqq

Best,

Mike

Hey, I only know what the Nuns beat into us in English composition. Sister Cecelia obres de cojones de laton (not Latin) often quoted the fat Limey PM-- "An umbrella is something out with which I shall not go in a rainstorm" (A common place event in The Big Foggy I hear tell- Now Mae West- de las grandes tetons-- always ended her sentences with a proposition- but she wasn't a Nun, now was she--

[Bill Murphy]

The original subject of this thread went to hell when the BHE .410 Repro was overlooked by a few dozen buyers who have wanted one since 1988 and would have given it a good home for twelve grand. "Hijacked" better refers to the BHE .410 than it does to this thread. We should be more observant.

[Bruce Day]

May I suggest that both Francis and Bill get together off alone for a week someplace, perhaps with shotguns up in the north woods. I'm sure they can work something out over a week of close continual contact.

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

May I suggest that both Francis and Bill get together off alone for a week someplace, perhaps with shotguns up in the north woods. I'm sure they can work something out over a week of close continual contact.

I live in MI- West central area (NE kent County) so to me, "northwoods" might mean across the Big Mac bridge into our UP.
I surmise that Bill lives in MD. so perhaps, to him, northwoods" might mean the Poconos.

I have no idea if Bill enjoys waterfowl and turkey hunting with shotguns, and deer (also coyote, bear and feral hogs) with a 30-06, as I do. I do appreciate your using the generic term "shotguns" rather than tying it down to only Parker shotguns. My "go-to- or "money on the line" shotguns have always been my Model 12 Winchesters. To use a golfing analogy- they are the putters in my bag of 14--where you "put for the dough"-- the side-by-sides are the drivers-- where you 'drive for show"--

I appreciate your "Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match" approach Bruce, but I think it would be better if I look Bill up when Mae and I are out in MD next time- and I'll stand him to a pint O'Guinness with a shot O'Bushmills- no irishman can turn that deal down...

[CSL]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

"May I suggest that both Francis and Bill get together off alone for a week someplace, perhaps with shotguns up in the north woods. I'm sure they can work something out over a week of close continual contact."

______________________________________

Sounds like Bruce speaks from personal experience, perhaps that's how he and Charlie Herzog became so close, off alone for a week someplace, perhaps with shotguns up in the north woods, and working things out with close continual contact...

Good luck Francis, it will be interesting to see Murphy's response to matchmaker Bruce's suggestion of a "date"... Maybe you can show Bill your GrandDad's two illusive AAHE 12-Bores that we've heard so much about over these past 3 years?...

Best, CSL
_____________________________________
.

I have never met Charlie Herzog, but I have long surmised that he and Colonel Bruce Day are good friends. How that came about I cannot say. I have had the pleasure of speaking with Bruce a few times on our cell fones, but have not yet met him. I had hoped to do so in June 2010, when I attended my first "Yooper Shoot", but Bruce had to bow out at the last moment, as some storm damage in KS had nearly demolished part of his house there.

One point of correction- nothing to do with grammar or snytax, but my late Grandfather's two 12 bore Parkers are Grade 6 guns- AH(E), not the next higher grade, AAH(E) or grade 7 as you surmised. They were his live bird and game guns- like me today, he favored the 12 bores, although he and my Dad gave a me 20 gauge M12 (28" mod) on my 12th Birthday. By age 15 I was shooting 12 gauge guns exclusively, except the 30 for rabbits and squirrels.

You raise a fair point, and I try to pay extra close attention to any especially made by LIFE members here, as that indicates a serious commitment, at least to me. If Mae and I drive out, and as we are both serious history buffs, and there are so many sites in MD etc. from the War of Nawthern Aggression that ripped apart our land for four years, we may well do that, I will bring one of the two AH grade guns and allow Bill to look it over to his heart's content- shooting it- that might be a 'whole 'nother ballgame', we shall see.

Howsome-ever, if we fly out. all bets are canceled- I'd trust a politician before I'd entrust the airlines and the TSA goons with any valuable gun. Fair enuf???