My favorite configuration...16 "O" frames..

[mobirdhunter]

Thanks, Art. I really enjoy reading the passion in an account like this about guns and hunting -- great "stuff!"

I have hunted the mountains in Eastern Kentucky, public land near Manchester mostly, with some time spent (fruitless, I might add) near Moorehead. I enjoyed my years hunting there, but would have liked more birds (duh, right?). I keep thinking I'll go back. I read about your DNR's plans for grouse with hope. I'm not sure I have the right dogs for those mountains now...or the "right" legs and lungs.

BTW, send all "whippy" 28 gauge guns my way. I shoot so close and so quick, the weight of the gun is of little consequence. My best (a.k.a. the one I killed the most grouse with) gun was an 1930s vintage boxlock John Dickson and Sons 28, choked cylinder/full. I could carry it in one hand while hanging on for dear life with the other in those near vertical coverts in the mountains.

I hope you'll share some photos of your 16s sometime, and I hope I can run into you on our travels east. I love Kentucky -- much like Missouri in many regards, except you have better mountains(!).

Take care,

Garry

Originally Posted by Arthur Shaffer

The greatest use is visual pleasure.
Past that, I truly believe they are the perfect upland gun. As I said, I generally won't buy one that is more than a few ounces over 6 pounds. A gun at that weight is easy to carry, and is dynamic to handle because the barrels have to be light to make that weight. I have quite a few 20 doubles and a number of 28's, which is my second favorite gauge and which I have owned a lot more over the years. Most of them in the 5-1/2 pound minus catagory are simply too light and whippy to shoot well. I was raised in Eastern KY where grouse was our primary game and we hunted them relentlessly without dogs. And their populations were very high. Any of these guns will work well on them. Over the years as I moved on to a lot of dove hunting (and shooting clays). I used all different gauges. I kept a lot of scores and records, and realized that once I went below 16 gauge, % started dropping. I often scored my best (especially on doves) with 16's but there was a measureable drop in targets and birds with the smaller bores. This shooting was done with heavier guns and often multiple barrel sets, so the difference was pretty much attributed to gauge.

I still shoot a lot of doves with a 28, largely because my daughters like them and (sounds silly) it is really easy to carry a lot of shells in your pockets. They tend to always be average weight 28's with long barrels. My favorite for preserve quail over dogs is a 5-1/2 # 28 with 30" barrels.

If asked to keep just two shotguns, the would be a mint 16 Sterlingworth that weighs 6 pounds with light barrels opened to Cylinder and IC, and a similar late date Ithaca NID16 with well struck barrels and Mod/Full barrels. I shoot these as well as any two guns I have ever owned, and would have no worries about hunting anything other than waterfowl with them. I live at the non-Mississippi end of the state, so the flyway is not a normal destination, so that's not a huge consideration.

[ArtS]

I don't have much hope for the birds in Eastern KY any more. Between strip mining (and reclaiming as flat fescue meadows, all before the mountaintop mining issue and rules) and farming practices there now, the quail and grouse don't have much of a chance. The DFW puts all its efforts into stocking the public areas but there isn't much benefit there. They do a good job with turkey and elk, with turkeys going from not here to being almost a nuisance as the deer have become. The elk program to re-establish (they were the primary prey for both Indians and settlers in the days when we had prairie grasslands, but disappeared. They are doing so well that the several hundred permits each go mostly to the thousands of applications from out of state.

When I was a kid, the grouse were everywhere. We would go up the hill behind our house on the edge of town, make a loop around a couple of small watersheds where the farmer's didn't care, and get grouse, quail, squirrel and rabbits (often 2 or 3 species on the same day). We lived in an outdoor paradise and didn't realize it. Peeople didn't even glance at someone in a canvas jacket and brush pants walking through the middle of town with a shotgun.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Arthur Shaffer

I don't have much hope for the birds in Eastern KY any more. Between strip mining (and reclaiming as flat fescue meadows, all before the mountaintop mining issue and rules) and farming practices there now, the quail and grouse don't have much of a chance. The DFW puts all its efforts into stocking the public areas but there isn't much benefit there. They do a good job with turkey and elk, with turkeys going from not here to being almost a nuisance as the deer have become. The elk program to re-establish (they were the primary prey for both Indians and settlers in the days when we had prairie grasslands, but disappeared. They are doing so well that the several hundred permits each go mostly to the thousands of applications from out of state.

When I was a kid, the grouse were everywhere. We would go up the hill behind our house on the edge of town, make a loop around a couple of small watersheds where the farmer's didn't care, and get grouse, quail, squirrel and rabbits (often 2 or 3 species on the same day). We lived in an outdoor paradise and didn't realize it. Peeople didn't even glance at someone in a canvas jacket and brush pants walking through the middle of town with a shotgun.

Gosh, for those days (as you describe) again! I did run into elk on my grouse hunts, the first time I "flushed" one was quite the surprise. I hunted older clear cuts (could fine no recent ones) and some grapevine ravines, but even in the short time I hunted Kentucky, those coverts all grew past even the older acceptable (to grouse, that is) age structure. So, I guess you've not checked out any of the newer habitat projects. I was thinking I might, but...

[Harold Pickens]

Although Ohio grouse season is closed, I ran my setter Doodle today thru some old strip mine/spoil bank cover that still looks as good as when we were flushing 25 birds/day there. I just wanted to get out with the dog and look for shed antlers and future sites for deer stands. In between 2 spoil banks she pulled up into a point. I thought it might be an early woodcock arrival, but was a big cock grouse. I had heard a bird drumming in that area both this spring and fall. Doodle pointed it again about 100 yds ahead as we moved around the hill. Strip mining sure created alot of great cover back in the day despite it's negative impacts.
I came across this old bucket from a shovel close to where I flushed the bird. If any body wants to help, we could get a few bucks for scrap--probably would weigh over a 1000 lbs.

[Harold Pickens]

Doodle and bucket.

[Harold Pickens]

Art, I have a German hammer 16 also, cant read the name of the maker. Has .metric 29.5 in barrels cyl/F, and weighs less than 6 lbs. It's a little off face, but shimmed it up. Only paid 250 for it.