Need Comprehensive low pressure reloading how-to

[Paul Harm]

I may not be in the good graces of some but what I'm going to write has worked for me since about 2005 shooting Damascus barrel guns. Been reloading since 1970.
You can shoot 2 3/4" shells in a 2 1/2" chambered gun - the pressure only goes up about 500psi. Sherman Bell did test about this and published them in the DGJ [ not in business anymore ]. He also tried to blow up in two different test, 40 Damascus barreled wall hanger SxSs. He took one Parker to 30,000psi before it let go. NONE of the wall hangers would blow with Remington proof loads of around 18,000psi. The reason I'm writing this is I believe you're worrying too much about shooting your gun. Most guys like to keep loads around 7500psi, but 8 or 8500psi loads wouldn't do any damage. I personally like to keep mine under 8000psi. If you call Alliant or Hodgdons I believe they'll still mail you one of their reloading handbooks for free. I find them much easier to use than the internet.
A Mec 600, or Jr as they're called, is probably the best bet for the money. A used one should still be found for around $100. Figure in a powder scale [ electronic for $35 ] from BPI or Precision Reloading.
Look up reloads for target shooting with 1 oz or less and you'll find many loads. The big problem is finding powder and primers. I lump primers in two groups - mild and hot. The Fed 209A and CCI 209M are hot. The rest mild. If you're reloading at say 7000psi then primer subing with in the two groups is irrelevant. Pressures won't change enough to make a difference. Cheddite primers are about the only ones you can find right now. So don't worry if the data calls for Win, Rem, Noble primers - they're all mild.
Shells in 12ga are either straight walled or tapered. The only tapered wall hulls are Win or Rem. And some new Federal hulls because they bought Remington reloading industry and label some of their shell Fed, but use Remington machinery. Most guys use a SW wad in a SW hull, and taper wad in a taper hull. The tapered wad will fit in a straight hull but you'll loose pressure. Straight wads won't fit in Tapered wall hulls.
As Brian said, with pressures in the 6 to 7000psi range you have a little leeway if the load is somewhat higher. Enough said - good luck. Find your powder first and build your load around it.

[John Cleveland]

The Hodgdon reloading manual came with the MEC Sizemaster loader that I ordered. It had a number of 2 3/4 inch 12 GA loads that were in the 5,000's and 6,000s PSI, yielding 1150 to 1250 fps velocity.

I called Hodgdon to ask if they could tell me how those loads would change using 2 1/2 shells. I spoke to a fellow named Luke Otte who was very responsive. He would not comment on how the listed loads would change in 2 1/2, BUT, he sent me a table of loads for 2 1/2" shells with pressures between 6,600 and 7,000 and velocities ranging from 1075 to 1300 fps. pushing 7/8 or 1 oz of shot. They were for Bashieri & Pellagri, Cheddite, and Fiocchi shells. They all used Universal powder and either Cheddite 209 or Fiocchi 616 primers. Of course all the Fiocchi shells used Fiocchi 616 primers (I have some Cheddite 209's). For the B&P and Cheddite shells, they used BP CS12 Short wads. The Fiocchi loads used a variety of wads. I am trying to upload a Word document to share.

However, this leaves the issue of getting components. I found some sites saying that they have the Universal powder and a couple with the Fiocchi primers. The question I have is as to the legitimacy of some of them. They claim that the credit card companies and PayPal will not do business with gun related vendors. So they want you to use PayPal but selecting the option that it is a transfer of cash to a friend or family, not a business. The significance is that PayPal says that there is no recourse for those transfers.

So, I wanted to know if any of you have safely used online reloading vendors that did this and whether I can trust ordering and paying with this channel?

Thanks!

[John Cleveland]

Attempt to upload Word version of loads table.

[Keith Doty]

John, I have purchased all kinds of components thru Gunbroker, etc. If they can't take a major CC for the transaction I recommend avoiding them. I did a bit of searching on a couple of dealers that wouldn't and found addresses that didn't match the business and other "odd" things, looked like less than reputable vendors. Same with Paypal. I don't think Paypal allows any ammunition or powder/primer sales so the "friends and family" deal is sketchy in my opinion. I HAVE used Paypal for wad purchases, no issue.

[John Cleveland]

Keith, thanks. The PayPal thing made my antennae go up and I didn’t complete it.

However, it is interesting that the one I was ordering Universal from, ended up later showing on their site the order being processed using ApplePay. I had initially clicked that as a payment option, but there were some problems submitting to that. It will be interesting to see if it went through and if I get the powder. At least AP is paid using my Amex card, so I can dispute it if it is bogus.

I am hopeful about the possibilities of one of the Hogdgon 2 1/2 loads being good for my gun. I would be interested in your opinion on any of them. (I hope that the load chart uploaded.) I can buy the B&P and Fiocchi locally in 2 3/4, shoot them and cut them down to 2 1/2.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Paul Harm

I may not be in the good graces of some but what I'm going to write has worked for me since about 2005 shooting Damascus barrel guns. Been reloading since 1970.
You can shoot 2 3/4" shells in a 2 1/2" chambered gun - the pressure only goes up about 500psi. Sherman Bell did test about this and published them in the DGJ [ not in business anymore ]. He also tried to blow up in two different test, 40 Damascus barreled wall hanger SxSs. He took one Parker to 30,000psi before it let go. NONE of the wall hangers would blow with Remington proof loads of around 18,000psi. The reason I'm writing this is I believe you're worrying too much about shooting your gun. Most guys like to keep loads around 7500psi, but 8 or 8500psi loads wouldn't do any damage. I personally like to keep mine under 8000psi. If you call Alliant or Hodgdons I believe they'll still mail you one of their reloading handbooks for free. I find them much easier to use than the internet.
A Mec 600, or Jr as they're called, is probably the best bet for the money. A used one should still be found for around $100. Figure in a powder scale [ electronic for $35 ] from BPI or Precision Reloading.
Look up reloads for target shooting with 1 oz or less and you'll find many loads. The big problem is finding powder and primers. I lump primers in two groups - mild and hot. The Fed 209A and CCI 209M are hot. The rest mild. If you're reloading at say 7000psi then primer subing with in the two groups is irrelevant. Pressures won't change enough to make a difference. Cheddite primers are about the only ones you can find right now. So don't worry if the data calls for Win, Rem, Noble primers - they're all mild.
Shells in 12ga are either straight walled or tapered. The only tapered wall hulls are Win or Rem. And some new Federal hulls because they bought Remington reloading industry and label some of their shell Fed, but use Remington machinery. Most guys use a SW wad in a SW hull, and taper wad in a taper hull. The tapered wad will fit in a straight hull but you'll loose pressure. Straight wads won't fit in Tapered wall hulls.
As Brian said, with pressures in the 6 to 7000psi range you have a little leeway if the load is somewhat higher. Enough said - good luck. Find your powder first and build your load around it.

I will start this off by saying I am far from being the most experienced Reloader or shooter of Damascus Parkers. My eyes are going to melt from their sockets from all the reading I've been doing concerning the subject of appropriate shells to use in a Parker with Damascus barrels. From what I have read Parker intended a shooter to use 2 3/4" shells in 2 5/8" chambers to acheive "A better pattern", they also used 3 1/4 drams of 1 14 oz lead for serious Trap Competition or waterfowl hunting. Sherman Bell did his best to blow up a Damascus Parker and succeded at over 30,000 PSI the same pressure that it took to destroy a pair of Vulcan Steel barrels. Recently, I believe on Gunbroker I saw a Parker that left the factory with Damascus barrels that had been blued and mismarked as being Titanic Steel, this gun had a PGCA Letter that attested to it being a gun with Titanic Steel barrels, I wonder how long that gun was fired under the assumption it had fluid steel barrels and what kind of shells had been run through it. All this reading and most of it on this forum have got me saying what's wrong with 3 Dram equivalent 1 oz. 2 3/4" factory loaded shotshells. 1145 FPS 1180 FPS and perhaps 1200 FPS