Correct me if I'm wrong

[Dean Romig]

True...






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[jsd]

My two cents. I have a great relationship with the ATF personnel I deal with. They're reasonable, actionable, and accountable. They're fast to respond. Saying that, there is quite a bit of misinterpretation of federal firearms laws. Locally, none of the auctioneers put firearms in their bound books and use NICS. The sales are considered person to person and in Missouri that only requires a valid state of Missouri ID. I drive 100 miles up the road toward St Louis and the auction houses are using bound books and NICS. They say the ATF told them they had to. I spoke to the ATF I deal with and was told they are trying to get the auction houses to use bound books and NICS, but they aren't required. I don't know if the auction houses are using the ATF as an excuse or if they've actually been told they have to use their bound books by their local ATF. Attending auctions, I tend to lean toward using NICS and bound books. I see three kinds of buyers at firearms auctions. The guy who had a particular firearm when he was a kid and there's one the same at the auction and he's going to leave with it no matter the price. There's the guy looking for a bargain. Then there's the criminal. When the bids on a beat up Glock 19 Gen 2 reach $500 something is fishy. That's what the ATF is trying to stop. I completely agree with them trying to stop the criminals. I tend to abide by the law whether I agree with it or not. If I don't like it, I have a Senator and a Congressman who are reasonable and paid well. I tend to err on the side of the law. I like people, in general, but I'm not loosing my FFL, house, day job, or freedom, because someone else who isn't going to be accountable, doesn't agree with a policy. I guess the easiest answer would be to get an 01. I got mine due to a similar situation as the original post.

[Dean Romig]

Unfortunately for some of us getting an 01 isn’t economically feasible. Here in MA a person is required to have a legitimate store to have an 01 FFL, and NOT in your home. But that’s Massachusetts for ya.





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[Kirk Potter]

I’ve bought pre-1898 Parkers from members here who wanted to ship to an FFL. Never considered it to be that big of a deal really. Almost safer that way, at least I know it’s being signed for rather than just dropped off on my porch.

[6pt-Sika]

Originally Posted by Kirk Potter

I’ve bought pre-1898 Parkers from members here who wanted to ship to an FFL. Never considered it to be that big of a deal really. Almost safer that way, at least I know it’s being signed for rather than just dropped off on my porch.

You have a valid point !

I purchased a rather nice circa 1897 Marlin Model 1895 in 38-56 from Leroy Merz a number of years back and he shipped it direct to me via UPS no signature required . Now bear in mind I live in the country . And they just propped it against the wall right beside the front door .

BUT it was right there pretty much the first thing an unwanted visitor would notice and on top of that it naturally was in a cardboard box so if there was rain well you get the picture .

[Bill Murphy]

Getting back to Craig's original post, I am of the opinion that ATF does not want "non guns", in other words, pre 1898, in a licensee's bound book. Their reasoning is that a non gun is none of their business.

[JLoew]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Getting back to Craig's original post, I am of the opinion that ATF does not want "non guns", in other words, pre 1898, in a licensee's bound book. Their reasoning is that a non gun is none of their business.

My understanding is that this has nothing to do with ATF and everything to do with New York’s safe act.

[OH Osthaus]

i have to admit, unless i know or meet the buyer- selling as an antique does concern me, I canceled a sale on this board because i did a quick internet search and found the guy would never pass a NICS for a couple very serious reasons. I was not going to be the one to give him a gun that ammo was available for.

we do have to be careful in this environment, BUT, to the original topic, a C&R should be accepted since the holder has passed the checks.

Years ago, if you had a NY concealed carry, you could get a check done every five years, and you got a certificate that gave you a pass on the NICS at a purchase.

[B. Dudley]

I cannot imagine ANY situation where the ATF would be ok with an Auction house doing business in firearms without having an FFL, or at least using an FFL for the transactions.

The Auction house is a third party business that is charged with selling the firearms. No different than a gun shop selling on consignment.
Person to person would be as if the owner of the guns was selling directly to the buyer, without a third party involved facilitating the sale. And... person to person is only good for two residents of the same state.
Calling an auction house sale the same as person to person, is a MAJOR stretch by any means of the word. And I am very surprised that ATF would call that ok.

[mobirdhunter]

In my part of Missouri, and with the local auctioneers (and for what little it's worth other than to cloud the issue even more), if the sale is an estate sale -- one owner -- and held on the premises of the owner (or former owner), then guns can be sold to individuals without NICS checks. Any other kind of auction that includes guns, including an estate sale held "off-premises", sales must have a NICS check (unless, of course, the buyer is licensed). The idea is that an estate sale on the premises is consider a person-to-person sale. (BTW, these almost never happen anymore, and the NICS is used pretty much universally).

Now, if you want to go to Iowa, you have to have a license to buy a gun at an auction.

If you want to go to Illinois...well, that's another country and it has all of its own laws. I feel for Rock Island trying to manage the Illinois AND federal laws.