SBT # 181261

[B. Dudley]

High and low brass does not mean a thing.

That gun should be able to digest any 2-3/4” target load that you want to shoot.

[Tom Flanigan]

[QUOTE=Brian Dudley;263801]High and low brass does not mean a thing.

It actually does mean something to those of us who have been hunting for more than 50 years or so. High brass shells were those heavy hunting loads manufactured by the various loading companies. A heavy 12 bore load, with the high brass typical of these cartridges, generally were loaded with 1 1/4 oz. of shot and 3 3/4 drams equivalent or, as is currently defined, a load of 1300+ fps. A typical low brass 12 bore load had a shorter brass base and was generally loaded with an ounce or 1 1/8 oz. of shot at 3 drams equivalent or about 1200 fps.

Hence, the term high and low brass accurately defined what one could expect from factory cartridges with respect to the loading. It’s a general term, but is somewhat useful when referring to factory loaded shells. I load all my own shells, but I would imagine that even today, if I bought a box of Remington Express shotshells, I would find that they were loaded in high brass cases. Conversely, if I bought a box of target loads, I’m sure the shells would have low brass.

Higher brass is no longer needed for maximum loads since plastic and stronger cases have eliminated the need to add to the strength of maximum loaded cases. From a marketing perspective, I don’t believe we’ll see the elimination of higher brass on heavy factory loads any time soon.

[Bill Murphy]

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face. By the way, the earliest NSSA rule books allowed 1 1/4 ounce loads for skeet competition. Fortunately, that didn't last long.

[J. A. EARLY]

Is it still 15" l.o.p.? Must have been a big man.

[Bill Murphy]

L.H. Reid shot similar or higher scores than very famous amateur Frank Troeh and equally famous professionals Al Riehl and F.C. Riehl, also Washington shooters. L.H. Reid lived at 1903 3rd Street, Seattle in 1922 and at 1211 2nd Street North, Seattle in 1925. Troeh was listed as an amateur in those years, but I believe he worked as a professional in later years. By the way, Jerry, my 1917 SC is a 15" gun also and letters that way.

[Tom Flanigan]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face.

Bill. I do know that the 1 1/4 oz. 12 bore load was the standard trap loading long ago. But I believe it was generally loaded at 3 1/4 dram equivalent (around 1200 fps) and not the 3 3/4 dram equivalent (+1300 fps) that is typical for heavy factory hunting loads. In my opinion, the 1200 fps, 1 1/4 oz. load is the optimum load for a 12 bore. It patterns beautifully out of my guns and I have used it for years on waterfowl and turkeys. It's the only load I use for hunting with a 12 bore. If you are going to carry a heavier 12 bore for longer range shooting you might as well use a 12 bore load in it.

The 1200 fps 1 1/4 load is a whole different animal than the 1300+ loading, in my opinion. It is a comfortable load to shoot and after comparing the results of using both loads on Saskatchewan waterfowl, I am absolutely convinced that the 1200 fps load is the better of the two. I tried hard to be totally objective in my comparison of the two loads on waterfowl and I became convinced that I had more dead in the air kills with the 1200 fps load. Maybe a longer shot string of the 1300 load had something to do with it, I don’t know. But I do know that my testing was extensive with a lot of kills to compare in the evaluation. I do two weeks in Saskatchewan and I pound the waterfowl day after day on their breeding and staging areas. My opinion is based on actual experience and, I trust, objectivity. No theory or armchair musings here.

[Trap3]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face. By the way, the earliest NSSA rule books allowed 1 1/4 ounce loads for skeet competition. Fortunately, that didn't last long.

Looked in a program from 1937 Interstate Shoot at Elliott`s Shooting Park,
Shell Rules... 3 1/4dr 1 1/4oz 7 1/2

In another Interstate program from 1941 ATA shell rules had changed to:
3dr 1 1/8oz 7 1/2... So sometime between those years.

Example of a premium Trap Load from the 20`s and 30`s
Western Super Trap 3 1/4 1 1/4 7 1/2

Trap3

[Bill Murphy]

That's one beautiful shell.

[Trap3]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

That's one beautiful shell.

Bill...

A couple more variations of the Western Super Trap shell...

Trap3