Substitute for PB

[Brett Hoop]

Looking for a substitute for IMR PB.

Specifically for 20 ga., 2 1/2", 7/8oz @ 1125fps. which is one of the offerings from RST in their Falcon Lite

I am dipping my toe into shotshell reloading.

Many Thanks

Brett

[Paul Harm]

I'm not sure what you're shooting for, pardon the pun. Why the reference to PB ? In a 2 3/4" Rem shell, Win primer, PC20 wad, and 18.8grs of Longshot you get 1250fps. Same load with 19.8grs gives 1300fps. So go down a grain and you'd probably get 1150fps. The 18.8gr load had 8700psi. The same data will work in a 2 1/2" shell - just have to make it fit. Maybe dip a couple of toes in and tell us what you'd like to accomplish.

[Brett Hoop]

In short- I am looking to duplicate the RST load for 2 1/2" 20ga. 7/8oz of shot using once fired RST hulls( which I have read are Chedditte) and RST tells me 7200 for pressure.

Several fellas have mentioned they use PB in their similar loadings. I don't have any PB, and I am a pilgrim at shotshell reloading, and thought perhaps this was a likely place to seek advice.

[Double Lab]

Brett,
I know Rich Anderson reloads nothing but 2.5" shells so contact him. I would look at 20/28 or Unique. I love 20/28. Best way is to call him so let me know if you want his #.

[Paul Harm]

PB, 7625, and 4756 have all been discontinued for a couple of years. I looked at Alliant and Hodgdons web sites and it looks like the Longshot has the lowest pressures, if that makes a difference to you. All primers are mild and normally can be interchanged if loading at mild pressures except the Fed 209A and CCI209M. Both of them are considered a hot, or magnum primer, and pressures will go up a bit. I see BPI has a short wad- SG20S- that might work for a 2 1/2" shell. Call them and ask for data to go with it. Please understand that I'm used to loading at low pressures so subbing in a different primer or sometimes wad won't effect the load a whole lot. If I were loading at near max pressures, then I would follow loading data to a T. In a 12 it's around 12,500psi, a bit higher for the smaller gauges. Bump the 18.8grs of Longshot down to 17 or 17.5 and shoot a couple. Check the barrel to see how dirty it is. A lot of unburnt powder and you need a bit more, at least for a clean burn. Good luck, let us know what you settle on.

[Brett Hoop]

Paul Harm

Thank you for the information. I have had some wonderfully helpful folks like yourself, coming to my aid. I really appreciate it because I have bugged the hell out of them! Due to their help and suggestions, I have some of the SG20S and the SG20M and a couple other wads on the way. Additionally the people at Hodgdon's and BPI and Precision Reloading have shared a lot of data, along with their time.

You are correct that I am pursuing low pressure loads. I shoot and hunt almost exclusively with Parker 0 frame guns of both fluid and Damascus barrels in 16ga, 20ga and 28ga. I have until now shot RST across the board and they have been great. With several thousand 2 1/2"once fired hulls in hand I think its time give shotshell reloading a whirl.

I have developed loads for many centerfire, smokeless and black powder cartridges, and own a Ohler M35 which I intend to attempt to use with my load development/testing for shotshells. I think I will run several 2 1/2" RST and 2 3/4" AA factory loads for their velocity readings, average speeds and standard deviations. If nothing else, it will give me some comparison of a small sample.

In speaking with the techs at the powder companies, it seems there are no current offered direct replacements for PB, 7625 or 4756. I asked about burn rates for comparison and found there to be some slight variations, but I think there are several current offerings that appear to be worth trying. As you mentioned Longshot is one, 20/28, Universal, 800X show up on the data(most of which is based on 2 3/4" hulls) the powder companies have sent me, and have been mentioned as powders some of my friends are using successfully, so there is maybe hope for me.

It is a shame that PB, 7625 and 4756 all got the ax, there was /is a fair amount of nice looking low pressure load data for those powders.

Many Thanks and Merry Christmas

Brett

[Paul Harm]

If it were me, I'd save the 2 1/2" shells and get some 2 3/4" once fired shells from a local gun club and just load them. Or buy the Cheddites from BPI. Sherman Bell proved 2 3/4" shells fired in a gun with 2 1/2" chambers only raised pressures around 500psi, a 1000 at the most.

[Brett Hoop]

Yes Sir, in fact I am reading Part V of Bell’s Finding Out for Myself
Vol. 12 Issue 4, Winter 2001 DGJ this evening.

I got a bit of Scotch in me, and also here about, I like 2 1/2” .

Merry Christmas

[Bill Murphy]

I agree with my friend Daryl on powder selection. Especially the Unique, which is cheaper than some of the others and is available in large containers. Further, it is suitable for use in the 28 gauge and heavier 12 gauge loads. An 8 pound container of Unique will last for years. I have been using Unique in all my 20s and 28s for fifty years or more, as well as in my lead shot days for 1 1/4 ounce 12 gauge and also for 1 1/4 ounce pigeon loads. CAC Associates, my supplier in PA, sells 8 pound kegs of Unique for $124.50.

[Brett Hoop]

Mr Murphy

I will be going to Ebensburg (CAC) this coming week.