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I generally put up 10 gauge black powder loads on hulls that have been loaded 5 or 6 times so it makes the shoot and toss a bit less painful. Same with Federal paper 12's. For 16's I roll crimp and use those at a event just for the experience of shooting the best loads possible for "Old Time" shooting. I just feel that a good run on clays or a great day in the fields are worth the added expense by using real powder.