Live bird gun?

[gman]

I have always considered the label, "live bird gun" to mean a shotgun without a safety. Is this correct? I have a 1916 4E single barrel Ithaca Flues with no safety and understood this may be referred to as a live bird gun. Is that true?
Thanks

[Cold Spring]

Originally Posted by Eric Grims

I have always considered the label, "live bird gun" to mean a shotgun without a safety. Is this correct? I have a 1916 4E single barrel Ithaca Flues with no safety and understood this may be referred to as a live bird gun. Is that true?
Thanks

The short answer for your gun is: no. Vintage single barrel trap (SBT) guns were generally made without a safety so there's no chance of calling for the target with the safety ON. No "do-overs" in serious Trap shooting. A shotgun capable of two shots is essential for high stakes live bird shooting. Also, live bird (pigeon) shooting rules require that two shots must be fired at/for each bird. If the bird is killed with the first shot the shooter fires a second one at the bird or into the ground. Thus a single-barrel break open shotgun won't do at the rings.

Now, what makes a vintage/safetyless side-by-side shotgun a live bird gun is another question that would take many paragraphs to detail. Personally I'm not up to it.

[Randy Roberts]

Eric you can search the forum and find a wealth of information on this topic of actual live bird or pigeon guns vs guns with no safety. I recently acquired a V grade 20 gauge with 32" barrels and no safety, factory correct. It is configured as a live bird gun with a straight stock and double triggers but I doubt anyone
ordered a 20 gauge to shoot live bird events so I would not consider it a live bird gun IMO.

[Dean Romig]

The term “live bird gun” is a misnomer used on a good number of guns made without a safety.
Even using the term “competition gun” may not be an accurate description for a safetyless gun.
Some folks just prefered their gun not have a safety for the kind of hunting or shooting they did.





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[Ed Blake]

A couple years ago at the Southern a dealer a nicely redone GH with 30” barrels and straight grip,no safety. Classic live bird configuration; however, the gun was on a #1 frame and quite light. Figured it may have been for someone who did not want to be bothered with a safety.

[Kevin McCormack]

There are plenty of examples out there of upland bird guns (e.g., NOT designed for pigeon, trap, or duck/goose shooting) that were ordered without safeties for one reason or another. Two most recent ones that stick in my mind are a really nice 26" DH 20 gauge Parker and an ultra-rare 26" Fox CE 20 ga.

[Dean Romig]

I recall a CHE 20 gauge with no safety, 30” Damascus barrels, Straight-grip stock and double triggers that was originally shipped to Canada.






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[TxHuntermn]

I hunt quail regularly with a gentleman that carries either a model 21 with a disabled safety, or a Merkel that he custom odered in the 50’s with no safety. The 21 a 28 bore, and the Merkel a .410. He carries the guns broken until the birds flush, closing the gun and shouldering in one movement.

[Randy Roberts]

So have any of you ever came across a gun configured as the V grade I described above, I would think that would be a little unique. What would your thoughts be on the intended use of a 20 gauge with 32" tubes and no safety ?
With an ordered LOP at 14.5" I doubt it was for a slighter built Gent or a Lady.
Also ordered with both barrels to shoot 180 pellets of #7 in a 30" inch circle at 40 yards.

[Dean Romig]

The CHE 20 that I mention above is pretty close to the V you describe Randy. I don’t know how the chokes were ordered but I can find out. I imagine they were pretty tight though because it was shipped, as I recall, to one of the prarie provinces. Whether it was used for pothole ducks or prarie grouse is anybody’s guess.





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