Puppies -Lets see them while they were still cute

[King Brown]

MD-GSP, yes, your opinion is a big part of it but it's not so much setting up situations to succeed as much as shaping another discipline off the collar. This dog is a pro for games with four years of electronic training. I'm easing into "stern but fair treatment" off the shocks, to do it for me and not to avoid pain, to be a real dog as you say.

As for the old remedy "cure," who can say empirically the spit did it and not stern and fair repetition and patience? It seems to me old ways often stick around because of a fair measure of success, perhaps with even a better record of reality than the accepted supernatural that the earth was created 2,000 years ago.

The remedy has been around since at least before the last century, there's David Michael Duffey's 1965 book endorsement of spit in particular situations, and my own experience of a transformation from a completely broken spirit. There's no advantage to anyone to make it up. I suspect old-timers and professionals recommend it because it (sometimes) works.

[Steve Hodges]

Quote--"I'm easing into "stern but fair treatment" off the shocks, to do it for me and not to avoid pain, to be a real dog as you say."

Mr. Brown, if you choose to train your dog off the E Collar that is entirely your business, but please do no state that dogs that work with assistance of the E Collar are not "real dogs, as you say". My dogs are real dogs in every sense of the word and I use an E Collar judiciously to re-enforce my voice and whistle commands. I can control them from great distances and can stop them from crossing a busy highway in an instant, a great safety measure, or call them off a porcupine before they get seriously hurt, which I have done before. Oh, and your emphatic point that they are not doing it for me is pure malarkey in my book. Funny how when I break out the E Collars both dogs go berserk, not because they don't want them on but just the opposite, they DO want them on because they associate them with a pleasurable time hunting with ME in the field. Go ahead and spit all you want in your poor pooches mouth, I choose to skip that rather gross training method and feel a bit sorry for the dog. JMHO.