Rare BHE .410 4/0-frame sighting

[Wild Skies]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Greg, the BHE 0000 frame .410 is not an unusual combination. BHE is the grade that these guns were made in, with the exception of the D engraved one you saw. Without breech ball beads, I question whether it is a 0000 frame. The 0000 frame is very different from the 00 frame and doesn't have what can be described as breech balls. Who offered that unusual gun?

Please read the remainder of the top left column paragraph in this link:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.p...pictureid=1027

Are you saying that the reported 33 factory completed 0000-frame .410 Repros were only built as B-Grades?

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, to begin, you DID state that the BHE grade 0000 frame .410 was unusual among 0000 frame .410s. That is not the case. Among factory finished 0000 frame .410s, the BHE was the catalog gun and the grade they are found in, with the exception of the gun being discussed with the D grade engraving. Kenny, you are beating a dead horse. It has been stated on this forum for years, and again stated by me in this thread, that most, if not all, 00 frame .410 barrels are marked 0000. Additionally, your statement about 0000 frame guns being identified by weight or any other method other than "looking at the frame" is a fallacy. The 0000 frame, for those who have seen one, is very obvious at first glance. There are no exposed breech balls, the hint of a breech ball being inletted into the width of the receiver. You continue to say that only one true 0000 frame .410 has been located. I have seen several, had several in my hands. I resent the fact that you are calling me a bit of a fibber about this. I would like to see Kevin McCormack post here, because he also has seen a few, and had them in his hands. Apparently your "Years of study" didn't show you that the frames are different in appearance and the "weight" is a red herring. Sure, the weight is different, but scales are scarce at Winter Vegas.

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, this is an answer to your last question. Of the 33 finished guns, there are 9 reported to have been "finished and factory engraved to grade". Of these, all known except the gun in question are or should be BHE grade. The remaining 24, working 0000 frame .410s, were white and unengraved. Most were engraved by Geoffroy Gournet after production ceased , with some rumored to be retained by the Skeuse family. For the information of Kenny Graft, I have seen several of the guns in process by Geoffroy, and have also seen a finished A-1 Special by Geoffroy, had it in my hands, and waved it around. I have also had in my hands, a prototype as Kenny refers to it. Kenny is incorrect in saying the 0000 .410 is "only a prototype". It is a production gun. The production figures are well known. The prototype is identical to production 0000 frame .410s as see it. I examined it in detail and have examined other 0000 frame .410s in detail, and saw no difference. I don't know the serial number of the prototype I examined.

[Bill Murphy]

Parker Reproductions Northeast Sales Manager, Ray Stone, visited here on August 31, 1988, to display and promote the Repro and the new .410 BHE. He brought a beautiful little prototype with him for examination and display. My friend, Mel Swerdloff, and I placed orders for identical .410 BHEs, his field choked, mine skeet choked. We had hours to inspect the new gun, but it only took me about five minutes to decide I needed one. Ray didn't know the price of the new gun and I didn't care. I still have a copy of the order.

[Bill Murphy]

The BHE in four gauges were introduced by a memo to dealers in 1988 at a retail of $3900 plus. One hundred of each gauge were to be produced. By 1989, they were missing from Repro literature. The Gun List advertisement placed by Mike Weatherby, offering a BHE .410, was dated April 9, 1993, long after production ended. The assumption is that Paul Dorsa's gun, seen at Las Vegas, was purchased from that ad, or maybe another Weatherby offering earlier. The Weatherby asking price was $16,000.

[Bill Murphy]

Kenny, you are being very impolite to tell me that I have not seen what I have seen. I've been in this longer than you have and have seen the guns. I know about the Chaddick gun, and it is not, as you say, one of two known genuine 0000 frame .410s. Maybe you should post those pictures. Geoffroy and I measured the pin separation on 0000 frame guns to confirm that they are different from the 00 frame. They are. The barrels of a 0000 do not "hang out the sides", because they are smaller than the 0000 marked 00 frame barrels. Without consulting my notes, I seem to recall that the genuine 0000 frame has an identical pin separation with the original Parker Brothers 000 frame. Please do not persist on implying I am not telling the truth.

[Bill Murphy]

The 33 DHE .410s in the production chart are assumed to be, as you suggest, 00 frame dedicated .410 guns, not part of sets, very hard to find, because some probably got converted into sets. The 0000 frame BHEs, which the production chart lists as 9 built, are a completely different animal. However, the 9 BHEs are not the complete production of 0000 frame guns, as I stated in my earlier post.