So I've been playing with different recipes for the 8g with Universal and Clays. I have plenty of both so which I choose is not an issue. So far all the recipes break birds, some better than others. I have loaded a bunch of the 1 1/2 oz with 25g Clays and they work fine. Much softer than the 29-30 of some other recipes. I loaded up some of Craig Larter's recipe of 23.9g and they worked great at the VGC. BLING is the thing!! I loaded some up for "longer targets" where I added a sleeve that came out of industrial hulls. Since the shot cup in the recipe is filled with a 1/8" nitro card and a 1/2" fiber wad, there is nothing to hold the shot. I'll test some of these next week on Olympic Bunker targets. I'll let you know how they work.