11-Gauge Parkers

[Richard B. Hoover]

Todd,

I looked in albums but was not able to locate the pics of your possible 11-ga. Could you tell me where to find them. Also, is the gun listed as a 10, 11, or 12in the serialization and what is the grade? If it is listed as a 11 or 12, it is quite possibly an 11 and should be measured. If it is listed as a 10 it may just be a 10 bore rather than an 11.

Richard

[Jeff K.]

I think this is what you are looking for.

[Richard B. Hoover]

Jeff,

Nope, those are the wonderful brass 11B shells. They were made by UMC and stamped with a Parker Bros. headstamp. I have yet to find an 11-bore Parker chambered for these shells. I previously neasured a perfect 12-bore Parker that was chambered for 11-B shells (and in a case with them). These shells are not right for an 11-ga Parker -- they are much too small. The Parker 11-B shells are typically 2.39" long; have rim diameter of .845" and taper from .792" at head to .788" at mouth. They are even smaller than a Parker 12A brass or modern unfired 12-ga AA shell which taper from .808" head to .790" mouth.

On the other hand, the Berdan primed UMC 11-Ga goes from .820" head to .814" mouth, which is suitable for the 0.825" diameter chambers of the 11-ga Parkers. Although the Bore Size is the crucial determining feature (0.751" 9 inch from the breech) the chambers too big for a modern 12-ga shell often give a good first clue to the 11-Ga.

I urge anyone with an early Parker lifter gun to slip a modern 12-ga shell into the chamber and see if it fits correctly or just rattles around.

If the chambers are too big, you may well have an 11-ga, even though the Parker record books may indicate it to be a 12- or a 10-bore gun. Years ago, Bill Furnish and I discovered that for some reason (as yet not understood) several Parker 11-bore guns were listed as either 10-ga or 12-ga guns in the Parker stock books and thus in the Parker Story and the Serialization as well. Very strange, indeed.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appeciated.

Richard

[Phil C]

I have S/N 1500. a 10 gauge shell will not fit and the 12 gasuge is loose. What measurements do I need to take, to determine if it is an 11 gauge?

[Richard B. Hoover]

Phil,

Thanks for your post. I will try to help with your question.

As you know, the internal diameters of the bores are the ultimate determining factor. The bore diameter for a perfect 11-ga shotgun is 0.751". If the gun is a 12-ga, the bore is 0.729" and 0.775" for a 10 bore. A 12-bore gun with barrels that are very badly pitted or have been honed could look like an 11-bore, but pitting or honing would not alter the chambers unless they were intentionally altered to try to make a fake 11-ga gun. I have not heard of any instances of that being done. Your gun may be a 10-ga that was chambered for the 10-B brass shells, or it may be an 11-ga. The only way to answer this question is to use an internal micrometer to measure the dimensions of the bores and inspect them to make sure they have not been honed. If they are full length tapered bores, the diameter must be measured at 9" from the breech.

My measurements of the Prototype Parker S/N 06 at the Meriden Historical Society (with the help of Charlie Herzog) and several of the Bill Furnish early Parkers reveal that they were able to make their 12-ga bores precisely .729" and their 11-ga guns precisely .751" diameter from the very beginning. They were always perfectionists at Parker Bros.! I hope this helps.

Can you post some images of your Parker? Is it a Back Action Underlifter? And what are the barrels - laminated or Damascus?


Richard

[Phil C]

Richard it is a Back Action with Decarbonized steel barrels. The barrels weigh 5lbs 2 oz and are 29" long. They appear to be uncut. I will try to get some pictures later. The bores measure .780 so they must have been honed. The rib is engraved Parker Bros Makers Meriden Conn Decabonized steel. The cambers measure abour .815

[Richard B. Hoover]

Phil,

They may not have been honed. How does the interior of the barrels look. If it has mirror bore, then I would say honing was likely, but I can not imagine why anyone would go to the trouble of honing the Decarbonized steel barrels. If the gun barrels have obvious pitting commensurate with an Early, Back Action Parker that had a fair bit of use on Ducks and Geese, then it is most probably in original state. The .780" bore diameter is a proper bore size for a 10-gauge Parker. I think the gun was most likely finished as a 10 gauge Parker and chambered for the Parker 10B brass shotshells. In the 1869 and 1872 catalogs, Parker advertises theur guns in 10- 11- and 12-Ga and they were generally sold with the Brass shells. By the way, have you checked the constrictions at the muzzle to see about the chokes?

Yours


Richard

[Jim DiSpagno]

There is a P grade lifter on Gunbroker and the frame and fore end are serial numbers 19296 Book says 10 ga. Barrels on said gun are serial numbered 10593 book says 12 ga. lifter. Called and asked exactly what ga. it was ans was told it must be a 10ga.as 12 ga. shell was too small and an old 10 would fit as a new one would not chamber. They had no way of measuring the bore and chamber. Could this be an 11??? Worth a look. I have no verted interest in this gun but thought it might have some bearing on this post. Thanks and have a great holiday. Jim

[Richard B. Hoover]

jim,

The barrels could be 11, but I suspect they are more likely 10-bore. Almost all known 11-ga Parkers have Serial numbers below 6000, but there are a few exceptions even higher than this. The only way to know for sure is to measure the bore diameters. The 10 B shells used in that time period were larger than a modern 12-ga and smaller than a modern 10-ga. Even though chambers can provide a clue in the hunt for the elusive 11-bore, the final answer can only be given by checking the bores.

Richard

[Phil C]

Richard the bores are cylinder on both sides. No choke . That said the bores have a lot of roughness, not pitting so much inside. If they were honed they were done many years ago, I would guess. The barrels are plenty thick. A 10 gauge shell will not even start in, a 12 gauge shell will, but is loose. I should not admit it but I have shot 12 gauge shells in it just a few times to test fire. I just wrapped about 3 or 4 wraps around the base of smoe RST shell. What would be the chamber size of a 10B shell?