Early 20th Century Powder Question?

[Researcher]

Same abbreviation info in a Winchester catalog, D for Du Pont Smokeless, DS for Dead Shot --

1916 Winchester Catalog pg 204 REPEATER.jpeg

[Mike of the Mountain]

That just may be correct. However, we can’t be too sure regarding the factory records because there is no key to decipher some abbreviations. All we can do is interpret the various entries as best as we can. Dead Shot does fall within the year the gun was made and the patterns tested. I will have to peruse TPS this afternoon and see if there is any pattern test info within those hallowed pages.

[Researcher]

Those abbreviations, D for DuPont and DS for Dead Shot seem to be an industry standard. I found the same in Peters and Western ammo catalogs as well as the Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and Winchester pages I had scanned into my computer.

[Mike of the Mountain]

Very good. Thank you Dave.

[Drew Hause]

It's not a surprise that most of the verbiage regarding burst barrels with Smokeless powder was related to confusion regarding grains & dram equivalents; esp. after the introduction of Dense Smokeless

July 1899 "Outdoor Life Ideal Shotgun Powder Table"

Black Powder (90 grains = 3 Dram)
“E.C.” No. 1 & “Schultze” - 41 grains
“E.C.” No. 2 - 35 grains
Velox - 105 1/2 grains
DuPont Bulk - 37 1/2 grains
Hazard Blue Ribbon Bulk - 37 1/2 grains
Gold Dust - 88 1/2 grains
Oriental - 37 grains
Troisdorf - 42 1/2 grains
King’s Semi-smokeless - 74 1/2 grains
King’s Smokeless - 54 grains


c. 1900 Powder Equivalents

...............................BULK............... ..................DENSE
.....….“E.C.” No.1....DuPont…..“Schultze”......Walsrode Green..Ballistite...Infallible
3 Dram....42............40................42........ ........30………..…...24...........22 grains
3 1/4.…...45.5..........43................45.......... ......32……..….…..26...........24 grains
3 1/2…....49.............46.5.............48.......... ......34………..…...28...........26 grains

The original “Schultze” & “E.C.” No. 1 Bulk Smokeless were 14 grains/dram
The original DuPont Bulk was 13 1/3 grains/dram
The original Laflin & Rand and Hazard “Blue Ribbon” Bulk were 12 1/3 grains/dram
Advertisements appeared in the later part of 1906 for “New DuPont Smokeless” which was also 12 1/3 grains/dram
“New Schultze”, New “E.C.(Improved) No. 2” Bulk Smokeless were 12 grains/dram.
“E.C. No. 3” was 11 grains/dram or 33 grains = 3 Dr. Eq.

Dense “Ballistite” and “Infallible” were later listed as equivalent at 8 grains/dram.

[Drew Hause]

American Powder Mills “Dead Shot” Bulk Smokeless was introduced in 1904, and “Dead Shot” ads first appeared in Sporting Life in 1906

Comparative Loads from the Lefever Arms Co. in The Outdoorsman's Handbook, 1920
http://books.google.com/books?id=Lr1...J&pg=PA138&lpg
Bulk DuPont, "Schultze", "E.C.", and Dead Shot are listed as equivalent so I assume that Dead Shot was another 42 grain = 3 Dram

[Mike of the Mountain]

I looked in TPS volume I, I found info on choke boring. The writers say that in the early days of Parker Bros in the black powder days, Parker Bros would hand load the test shells. Moving forward, when the various smokeless powders were introduced, Parker Bros would use factory shells as they were readily available. That said, it is a possibility that DS does indeed stand for Dead Shot. We can certainly say that “DS stands for Dead Shot, DuPont Smokeless or Dense Smokeless.” Too bad we can’t ask a factory employee.

[Drew Hause]

I believe Dave is quite correct regarding 'DS'
A good collection of hang tags have been shown here, and some indicate DuPont Bulk, some only 'Bulk', and on some the powder is not indicated

c. 1924



c. 1928 with DuPont Oval



BTW Dense Smokeless had significantly higher pressures than Bulk; period pressures to which 10% was added for modern transducer numbers
1 1/8 oz. 3 Drams BULK Smokeless was 6000 - 8000 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 Dr. Eq. of DENSE Smokeless was 8,500 - 10,000 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. BULK Smokeless was about 8500 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was 9500 - 10,500 psi.
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. BULK Smokeless was about 11,500 psi
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was 12,500 psi

[Researcher]

Just got my new laptop connected to my scanner, so I scanned the page with the powder abbreviations in the 1912 U.S. Cartridge Co. catalog --

1912 Catalog, powder abbreviations.jpeg

[Mike of the Mountain]

Dave, you need to put all your knowledge into book form!