Factory Cut and Re-bored Barrels

[Randy Roberts]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

It doesn't matter a bit if the keels are present or if the matting runs off the end of the rib..

I get that Dean but I to am curious just to see how PB did the work. Did they just cut them and let it go there or did they take the time to add the terminal line. Nothing more than a matter of pure curiosity.

[Kevin McCormack]

Length of choke run, contour or "ogive" (- what a goofy word!) of the choke, and presence or absence of keels and horizontal terminal rib striations are all completely moot until you pattern the gun. Keep in mind that different manufacturers assigned different values to the degree of constriction(s) that produced specified pattern densities at given ranges. (Essentially what Dean said). Winchester designated "Skeet 1/Skeet2) even among the 12, 16 and 20 gauge guns produced what other makers would call IC and MOD. Savage Fox Skeet and Upland Game Guns from the 1930s designated CYL and IC actually measure right at .005" and .011" - .014" constriction. FN Brownings and most modern Superposed Brownings built in Belgium measure .723" true barrel diameter at mid-bore in 12 gauge; when you wind up with a true muzzle diameter resulting in their designation of full choke, you are talking .040" constriction. So one size does not fit all.

[winplumber]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

It doesn't matter a bit if the keels are present or if the matting runs off the end of the rib.... The letter clearly indicates the fact that the barrels were shortened at the factory.

i have a 28 gauge that started life with 28" barrels but the factory records show that it was originally ordered with 24" barrels, which it now has. The keels were replaced but the matting runs off the end of the rib.


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I understand but was wondering if they did anything to the matting thats why I asked the question Im not doubting the letter. Dean does your letter say it was returned to be cut or what did it do set in inventory with 28" barrels and someone wanted a 24" 28 gauge ?

[Dean Romig]

It sat in inventory for almost 4 years with the 28" barrels. Then the order came in for 24" barrels and out it went.





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[John Allen]

I doubt that the factory would take the time to mark the rib at the muzzle. They would take the less expensive route and just shorten the rib and barrels as they did on Dean's 28. We tend sometimes to forget that these guns were built in factories where cost cutting was the rule.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by John Allen

I doubt that the factory would take the time to mark the rib at the muzzle. They would take the less expensive route and just shorten the rib and barrels as they did on Dean's 28. We tend sometimes to forget that these guns were built in factories where cost cutting was the rule.

I agree, and I recall the matting going all the way to the end of the barrels (but will check later). Also, the cost for the cutting and re-boring was $1.50(!) Even accounting for timeframe, that's not a great deal of money for the labor involved.

[ArtS]

Originally Posted by Kevin McCormack

Length of choke run, contour or "ogive" (- what a goofy word!) of the choke, and presence or absence of keels and horizontal terminal rib striations are all completely moot until you pattern the gun. Keep in mind that different manufacturers assigned different values to the degree of constriction(s) that produced specified pattern densities at given ranges. (Essentially what Dean said). Winchester designated "Skeet 1/Skeet2) even among the 12, 16 and 20 gauge guns produced what other makers would call IC and MOD. Savage Fox Skeet and Upland Game Guns from the 1930s designated CYL and IC actually measure right at .005" and .011" - .014" constriction. FN Brownings and most modern Superposed Brownings built in Belgium measure .723" true barrel diameter at mid-bore in 12 gauge; when you wind up with a true muzzle diameter resulting in their designation of full choke, you are talking .040" constriction. So one size does not fit all.

If that's goofy, what about the phrase "secant ogive"? There's probably not a groundhog hunter in the south from the 60's and 70's who hasn't used that termmore than once, and most probably have no clue as to what it means.

In another veinconcerning the Browning barrels, I think they did that to upstage Beretta. In my experience, up until the modern era, they were consistently the smallest barrels I ever measured. Most of mine measured around .010 less than I expected.

[Dean Romig]

I freely admit that I (a Yankee) don't know the meaning of "secant ogive" but further, I've never even heard or read the term.

Please enlighten us Arthur...





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[ArtS]

One of the first high ballistic coefficient bullets made was by one of the majors (don't even remember which) that flooded the magazines with ads about there revolutionary bullet with a nose designed with a "secant ogive" shape of the tip. Ogive has a more specific meaning in statistical analysis, having to do with a cumulative distribution curve. The term ogive came about because it looked like some specific Greek arch style. With bullets it means the curve of the point, Traditional pointed bullets had a tangent ogive. More bearing surface, shorter curved tip and more drag in the bore, along with more air drag. A secant ogive has a longer thinner tip, less bore contact and less air drag. Downside is harder to stabilize.

Fundamentaly, it is a longer for weight bullet. People picked up on the technical, really non-informative name and blabbered for years about it.

In a choke, it would mean a choke with a curved transition. I don't know if it is really a true ogive shape or simply a curve.

[Dean Romig]

I believe it would be a compound curved transition, which a true ‘ogee’ is, not simply a curved transition.


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