Early 1/2 Frame 12 Gauge Lifter?

[Jay Oliver]

Hello Everyone,

I picked up a new lifter today. It’s serial# 3492 a 12 gauge lifter, Dollar Grade 2 I believe with 30” damascus barrels. When I got it home and was checking it out it seemed like a very light weight 12 gauge especially for an early lifter. On a bathroom scale it weighed 7lbs. 10 oz. That doesn’t seem that light now but maybe it was back in 1874?

Also the barrel thickness at the breach is the thinnest I have seen in a Damascus gun. The chambers measured 2 5/8” a 2 ½ RST 12 gauge shell seems very loose(side to side until it seated) in the chamber. I put in 2 Original 12A Parker Brass shells, which fit much better. I thought maybe these barrels were honed/polished to the point where there wasn’t too much metal left? I don't know if you can tell from the pictures?

I measured the frame, 1 1/16” between the firing pins, 1 5/8” across the water table on the frame and 2 5/32” across the bolsters(which look like grade 1 instead of grade 2). Would that make this a 1/2 frame 12 gauge? I thought that might explain the light weight barrels.

If you zoom in on the barrel and forearm picture you can see 12 stamped in the barrel. Also JL under it but upside down(Initials?). There isn’t a barrel weight on the lug, except maybe a “1” or “L” that may be part of the initials.
Overall a very nice gun, bores are nice but not perfect so that may support some polishing. The rest of the gun seems to be in good condition(all the numbers match). I have never seen that type of bead on a Parker.

It is nice to shoulder, when I measured the LOP between the triggers it was 12 ¾” which I usually wouldn’t like, but the gun feels light and nice. Shooting these thin chambers concerns me a bit, this seems like a black powder gun with light loads. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated?

I have a research letter on the way.

Thank you,
Jay

[Jay Oliver]

I updated my bolster measurement above, when I looked at my calipers again, I get slightly less than 2 3/16" between the bolsters, its more like 2 5/32"

[Jay Oliver]

And 2 More...

Thanks,
Jay

[Dean Romig]

Well, the 1/2-frame wasn't developed until Remington owned the Parker Gun Works so it can't be a 1/2-frame. Your gun is however from an era when 'standards' as we know them today had not yet been fully implemented. We see similar variances from the norm in other guns made in that period. A 20 gauge lifter owned by member Tom Latham comes to mind. The spacing between centers of the firing pin holes, as I recall are closer together than on a 0-frame and we know that the 00-frame hadn't been developed yet. I have only ever examined two such 20 gauge guns, the other having been owned by Austin Hogan.
That is certainly the era of anomalies... but, as I stated, the development of 'standards' was in its youth - if not its infancy.
I am not aware of Parker Bros. ever having made the 12 gauge on anything smaller than the 1-frame... but again, it is an early gun.






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[B. Dudley]

This gun really predates what is considered the typical Parker frame sizing system.

It simply is a super loghtweight 12g gun. Looks to be in super condition!

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by Jay Oliver

Hello Everyone,

Also the barrel thickness at the breach is the thinnest I have seen in a Damascus gun. The chambers measured 2 5/8” a 2 ½ RST 12 gauge shell seems very loose(side to side until it seated) in the chamber. I put in 2 Original 12A Parker Brass shells, which fit much better. I thought maybe these barrels were honed/polished to the point where there wasn’t too much metal left? I don't know if you can tell from the pictures?

Shooting these thin chambers concerns me a bit, this seems like a black powder gun with light loads. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated?

a gun of that age was likely chambered for the brass shells

when you say "thin chambers" are you only referring the the wall at the breach? this sounds like a gun to get wall thickness measured on- but if the brass shells fit, that would make sense. It may like BP in brass hulls as a diet.

Over all - great looking early gun

[Roundsworth]

Very nice! It is not chambered for the smaller B shell, which makes shooting it less of a hassle.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks for the replies. I was referring to the wall thickness at the chambers/breach. In the picture below you can see there is just enough room for 2 12 gauge shells and not much "barrel material" around them.

At some point the pin was welded/converted so it no longer extends when the the gun is open(I think that was a common practice).

I like it more and more as I look it over. It will be interesting to see what the letter says.

[charlie cleveland]

i have a early 10 ga that is thin at the breach end of the gun..just cleaned it the other day and donot remember the serial no...but it is the early 4000 range...you have a very interesting gun there at the barrels end looks to be safe to shoot to me...charlie

[Dean Romig]

This is the breech of Tom Latham's 20 gauge lifter with Stub Twist barrels. These are pretty thin as well.


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