Opinions - True/Best Definition of Parker Skeet Gun?

[Dean Weber]

I am interested in opinions for what I have studied here on the forum, within TPS, and my own observations.

I have read many opinions here on the forum on what makes a true Parker skeet gun. Typically what I see as a general prevailing opinion is as follows:

- 26" barrel
- Ejectors (SAEs)
- SSTs
- BTFE with reinforcing rod and one piece loop
- Straight stock with checkered butt or DHE and higher with SSBP
- Barrel flats stamped as Skeet out and Skeet in (L/R) or reverse choked

The Parker story and the table page 411 represents skeet guns from 1929-1942 with the following characteristics:

- Guns produced after 1925 (none with all characteristics until 1929)
- Gauges 12 and smaller
- SAEs
- SSTs
- BTFEs
- Barrel lengths 28" or shorter

Therefore, based upon the table in the TPS and what we know is likely found in research letters or even original hang tags, stock configuration and skeet choke marks/stamps were not taken into account in the compilation of the table on page 411. This is understandable due to what may be available in the records.

Further, figure 9.26/page 411 suggests choke markings/stamps began to appear in 1937. Additionally, we know from knowledgeable members who have posted on this subject that early skeet guns were choked a bit tighter than what we might see on very late Remington guns due to the evolution of the game of skeet.

Based upon my contrast above, what does the community say about the following fictional example...is this a skeet gun (I assume it would have been captured in the TPS chart)?

- 1937
- Straight grip DHE with SSBP
- SAEs
- SST
- BTFE
- 28" or 24" barrels
- Chokes not marked but reverse choked with say M/M

My point in bringing this up is we frequently debate proper choke markings on barrel flats for a skeet gun. Yet we know the table does not take that into account and we also know skeet out/skeet in was an adaptation of the maturation of skeet as a game. Is a skeet configured gun without "standard choke markings on the barrel flats not a skeet gun? what if it is choked Modified or tighter? Or is it simply proper to suggest guns 1937 and beyond we expect the markings and prior we do not?

Appreciate your opinions.

[6pt-Sika]

I recently acquired one that near as I can tell and from what some far more astute in this matter than myself proclaim it to be “the real deal” . And has the following,
- 26" barrel
- Ejectors (SAEs)
- SSTs
- BTFE with reinforcing rod and one piece loop
- Straight stock with checkered butt
- Barrel flats stamped as Skeet out and Skeet in (L/R) or reverse choked

[Dean Romig]

Dean, The subject of "What Defines a True Skeet Gun" is a deep and very convoluted definition.
In my opinion, in regard to Parker shotguns, and there are those who will disagree with me, a Parker Skeet gun should have the following features:

1. Barrel length 28" or less.
2. Beavertail forend.
3. Non Automatic safety.
4. Chokes of IC/MOD or less but more open is preferred. (Skeet In/Skeet Out stamps not required)
5. Twin beads.
6. Should have originally been bought primarily to shoot Skeet but hunting upland game as well is not a disqualifier.

I've seen guns with the proper Skeet In/Skeet Out chokes that had a dogs head butt plate and I've seen them without those stamps but with all other accepted Skeet attributes.

I wrote an article in Parker Pages Volume 24, Issue 3 titled "The Elliot's Twenty-Bore Parker Bros. Skeet Gun" highlighting a DHE with all the attributes of a Skeet gun but without the Skeet In/Skeet Out choke stamps, though it has, according to my measurements, upland chokes. The Elliott men used it extensively for Skeet shooting and took first and second places in two different classes at the local sportsmans club they belonged to, but they hunted with this gun in season as well.

The Elliott Skeet Gun.

[Dean Weber]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;349880]Dean, The subject of "What Defines a True Skeet Gun" is a deep and very convoluted definition.
In my opinion, in regard to Parker shotguns, and there are those who will disagree with me, a Parker Skeet gun should have the following features:

1. Barrel length 28" or less.
2. Beavertail forend.
3. Non Automatic safety.
4. Chokes of IC/MOD or less but more open is preferred. (Skeet In/Skeet Out stamps not required)
5. Twin beads.
6. Should have originally been bought primarily to shoot Skeet but hunting upland game as well is not a disqualifier.

Dean,
I appreciate your input to my questions. Do you agree that your criteria in 4-6 would not have been taken into account in TPS chart? If true, if we disregard any guns which were upgraded after the fact, the numbers in the chart would still be potentially higher than if we also considered non-automatic safety or twin beads as an absolute criteria? Certainly the authors were unable to consider the purpose of the gun in #6.
Best

[Dean Romig]

[QUOTE=Dean Weber;349910]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

Dean, The subject of "What Defines a True Skeet Gun" is a deep and very convoluted definition.
In my opinion, in regard to Parker shotguns, and there are those who will disagree with me, a Parker Skeet gun should have the following features:

1. Barrel length 28" or less.
2. Beavertail forend.
3. Non Automatic safety.
4. Chokes of IC/MOD or less but more open is preferred. (Skeet In/Skeet Out stamps not required)
5. Twin beads.
6. Should have originally been bought primarily to shoot Skeet but hunting upland game as well is not a disqualifier.

Dean,
I appreciate your input to my questions. Do you agree that your criteria in 4-6 would not have been taken into account in TPS chart? If true, if we disregard any guns which were upgraded after the fact, the numbers in the chart would still be potentially higher than if we also considered non-automatic safety or twin beads as an absolute criteria? Certainly the authors were unable to consider the purpose of the gun in #6.
Best

Dean, I wouldn’t begin to second-guess the work of the authors of “The Parker Story”
There may have been some omissions in the data they have presented but we must keep in mind what a colossal task it was to have compiled and sorted all the data that they did - our collective hats-off to them.
We can imagine and presume a lot of things to fill in certain blanks but in the end I think we need to accept that there will always be questions that remain to be andwered.





.

[Dean Romig]

My own VHE 28 gauge is a good example of a documented Skeet gun in both the Parker factory records as well as the Abercrombie & Fitch documented records of it. ( 236912 )
Mine has no choke stamps on the barrel flats but the right barrel has the tighter choke of .015" constriction and the left has a constriction of .008" but it has all of the other Skeet gun attributes.


.

[Reggie B]

Here is mine -

20 VHE
Flats marked skeet choked
Single trigger
Checkered butt
Straight stock
Beaver tail

It’s a sweet one! Pictured with a 16 gauge skeet.

[6pt-Sika]

Originally Posted by Reggie Bishop

Here is mine -

20 VHE
Flats marked skeet choked
Single trigger
Checkered butt
Straight stock
Beaver tail

It’s a sweet one! Pictured with a 16 gauge skeet.

Reggie at the risk of being nosey , did you acquire that one at auction in the last 14 or so months ? I kinda went after one at a CT Firearms Auction in October of 2020 . Was wondering if this were the same gun ?

[Reggie B]

Originally Posted by CraigThompson

Reggie at the risk of being nosey , did you acquire that one at auction in the last 14 or so months ? I kinda went after one at a CT Firearms Auction in October of 2020 . Was wondering if this were the same gun ?

This gun came out of an estate. Gun was supposedly bought new by a family member. It comes as close to being an unfired gun as I have ever owned.

[Bill Murphy]

My recently acquired 28 has 28" cylinder and cylinder bores. It is a very late, May 1939 gun that was apparently made at a time when proper skeet bores had been established, unlike earlier times when a lot of choke was thought most efficient. The chokes are not marked on my gun, probably because they are not skeet in and out chokes. However, proper skeet features are present, checkered butt, non automatic safety, twin ivory sights. I acquired my .410 from the original family, who had never seen a skeet field. It was a working quail gun from northern Virginia and shows its use in the field. My 20 is also from northern Virginia, but was used on the skeet field by Remington guy, Bob Hess, who was an NSSA competitor. Bob was the guy mentioned in some Parker literature as the person who outed the rare 24 gauge Parker. I hadn't thought of the fact that all three of my Parker skeet guns came from Virginia. I shot on the International Skeet circuit with Colonel John Hess, who one night at dinner told me about his dad's great little 20 gauge Parker skeet gun. I choked on my food before admitting to the Colonel that his dad's Parker was safe at home in my gun room.