Shooting Sportsman Article

[Joe Graziano]

Is it just me or does this guy seem to be peddling old wives tales about vintage guns and Damascus barrels? Is he even aware of Sherman Bell, RST shells, the entire vintage shotgun community? I’m sure Tom Roster is a nice guy but everything I’ve read by him seems to be ill-informed nonsense. How does he have a regular piece in Shooting Sportsman?

https://shootingsportsman.com/pressure-vs-recoil/

[6pt-Sika]

Everyone’s got a right to their “opinion” and based on this fellows opinion I’d not be overly enthused if he knocked on my door .

[Drew Hause]

No excuse however for repeating demonstrable erroneous statements
Parker Brothers 1893 Catalogue
“Our guns are bored on the latest improved system for shooting Nitros, or Smokeless Powder, and all our guns are tested with some one of the most approved makes, and a tag accompanies each gun, giving the results of such a (pattern) test.”

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/vie...p?f=2&t=505616

[Ed Blake]

Do our modern propellants behave the same as smokeless powder from the late 19th century? Roster pays little attention to Sherman Bells work but is a believer in having individual guns proofed before shooting.

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by Ed Blake

Do our modern propellants behave the same as smokeless powder from the late 19th century?

which powder when -

there were and are different powders - many have a pressure curve quite similar to black powder. that is the key point. the gun doesn't know or care if the same PSI at the same distance from the breach is created by black powder, smokeless powder or for that matter compressed air

[GH-16]

Originally Posted by Rick Losey

The gun doesn't know or care if the same PSI at the same distance from the breach is created by black powder, smokeless powder or for that matter compressed air

Bingo- We have a winner!!

It's all about the physics involving pressure. It doesn't matter if it's Damascus barrels, fluid steel barrels or a piece of PVC pipe. When you boil it down shotgun barrels are nothing more than a piece of pipe, either they will be able to safely hold a given pressure or they will yield & fail if they have been exposed to pressures over their yield strength. It only makes sense to keep the pressures as low as possible no matter what kind of material the barrels are made from. It all comes down to any given set of barrels, their individual condition and what they can handle for pressure. IMO a good rule of thumb is to inspect each barrel closely for condition with the emphasis on safety and then keep the pressures the lowest you can to get the job done safely & effectively.

Tom Roster is for the most part is correct about not confusing pressure with recoil. Recoil is affected by a different set of physics and the two shouldn't be confused with each other.

[Dean Romig]

I honestly don't believe we need to have these composite-barreled Parkers 'proofed' per se.

Common sense wins out in most cases and when it fails.... it just proves Darwin's Theory of Evolution. I think is was something like "The stupid shall perish." or somethin' like that....





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[Kensal Rise]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

... it just proves Darwin's Theory of Evolution. I think is was something like "The stupid shall perish." or somethin' like that....

.

Then how do you explain Washington DC?

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by John Campbell

Then how do you explain Washington DC?

I don't even try....





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[Drew Hause]

Ed: a pressure-distance curve for some new-fangled smokeless powders; 1 1/8 oz @ 1200 fps. Please note that Unique is the old Infallible Dense Smokeless slightly modified. The curves meet at about 2 1/2"



Pressure-time curve. The Green Dot and Unique curves are the same.



From “Smokeless Shotgun Powders: Their Development, Composition and Ballistic Characteristics” by Wallace H Coxe; E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co., 1927, promoting DuPont Oval, p.20.
Charge was 3 Dr. Eq. and 1 1/4 oz.
Ballistite maximum pressure at 1” was 4.9 Long Tons = 10,976 psi
Schultze at 1 3/4” was 4.5 Long Tons = 10,080 psi
DuPont Bulk at 1 2/3” was 4.1 Long Tons = 9,184 psi
FFFg at 1 1/2” was 3.8 Long Tons = 8,512 psi
DuPont Oval at 2” was 3.5 Long Tons = 7,840 psi
+ 10-14% to reproduced modern transducer numbers so Ballistite was probably > 12,500 psi



Dense Ballistite was slightly slower than Red Dot and e3; the old Bulk Smokeless more so with a lower peak pressure; "progressive burning" Oval much more so.