New York Catskills grouse report

[James L. Martin]

So far this season has been very bad. In 8 days of hunting I put in 38 hours and had 13 grouse flushes for .34 flushes an hour. Out of those I only heard most. I didn't get a single shot at any , my partner shot at 1 bird which he missed. We also only put up 3 Woodcock and got 1 which was the only shot I took in all 8 days of hunting. Hope better days are coming, I have been hunting grouse for 50 years, the birds disappeared from southern New York and now the Catskills seems to be going down the same road.

[charlie cleveland]

sounds like ahard hunt with nothing to show for it.....i have traveled that same road....charlie

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by James L. Martin

So far this season has been very bad. In 8 days of hunting I put in 38 hours and had 13 grouse flushes for .34 flushes an hour. Out of those I only heard most. I didn't get a single shot at any , my partner shot at 1 bird which he missed. We also only put up 3 Woodcock and got 1 which was the only shot I took in all 8 days of hunting. Hope better days are coming, I have been hunting grouse for 50 years, the birds disappeared from southern New York and now the Catskills seems to be going down the same road.

So, James, have they quit logging in the Catskills as they have in so many eastern areas? I lived through the same thing in SE Ohio. Court injunctions from so-called environmentalists who had gotten their ideas of what a healthy forest should look like from a calendar photo stopped the harvesting of trees almost completely...and...no grouse or other wildlife that needs early successional forests.

[James L. Martin]

I don't see much logging on state land, they do on private land. Where I hunt there is plenty of food and cover, I think it's the hawks ,owls ,and turkeys and maybe the latest problem, west nile virus. You hear and read many reasons, for the most part it's been a long slide down, what has changed in 40 years is the large increase in hawks and owls and the reintroduction of turkeys.

[edgarspencer]

I still believe that predators are the single biggest cause of the population decline. We can't change wet springs, or go back and undo the reintroduction of wild turkey, but state biologists need to acknowledge the issue and open up the season and bag limits. Lottery? Give me a break.

[Opening Day]

Originally Posted by edgarspencer

I still believe that predators are the single biggest cause of the population decline. We can't change wet springs, or go back and undo the reintroduction of wild turkey, but state biologists need to acknowledge the issue and open up the season and bag limits. Lottery? Give me a break.

Also habitat and clear cutting makes all the difference!

[Woodcock survey]

Among many factors, the advent of selective cutting to appease tree huggers has led to a less than ideal re-generation of habitat. Reading Gillion it takes a certain threshold of stem density to make the cover suitable to grouse. No habitat = no birds.

[Big D]

I don't buy the predation answer. There is a natural balance between predators and prey. If there is a lot of prey, predators will move in. If there is a lack of prey, the predator population will drop or move out. Perhaps man has been too efficient, and therefore the game population is dropping. Now, following my thoughts above, the hunter population is dropping I always look first at habitat

[Kingston Wulff]

Originally Posted by John Dallas

I don't buy the predation answer. There is a natural balance between predators and prey. If there is a lot of prey, predators will move in. If there is a lack of prey, the predator population will drop or move out. Perhaps man has been too efficient, and therefore the game population is dropping. Now, following my thoughts above, the hunter population is dropping I always look first at habitat

Well put.

[James L. Martin]

I can understand natural balance but let's look at the northern New Jersey and southern New York area, 40 years ago you could expect to have 20 plus grouse flushes a day on average. Today you can hunt all season and not see a grouse, New Jersey just closed there grouse season. As to cover and food it's as good as it was 40 years ago. What changed? It was very rare to see a turkey or a coyote, but the big change was the increase in hawks and owls. It's not just the grouse that disappeared also the pheasants and rabbits. I don't have the answers, just going by what I have seen happen over my lifetime.