Fox/Parker Challenge Rules for 2015

[Autumn Daze]

Gent's as promised and agreed to by both organizations. As Toolman likes to spout"Let the games begin"


2015 Fox vs. Parker Challenge Rules


1) Competition is open to members in good standing of the AHFCA or PGCA as of March 1st, 2015. Updated rosters will be on hand to verify current membership status. Dual members of AHFCA and PGCA must choose ONE Association to represent at time of registration. Anyone attempting to shoot for both Associations will be disqualified.

2) Shooters must use a shotgun promoted by the organization they choose to represent. Those shooting A.H. Fox guns and representing the AHFCA are limited to Fox guns manufactured in Philadelphia, PA, Utica, NY and New Britain, CT (CSMC Fox models). Those shooting Parker Bros. or Parker guns and representing the PGCA are limited to Parker guns manufactured in Meriden, CT, Ilion, NY and genuine, Parker Reproductions.

3) All those who wish to compete in the 2015 Fox/Parker Challenge must first shoot the 10-12-16 gauge course at Haussmann’s. This course will serve as the “Qualification Round.”

All shooters must first pay and acquire their score cards from the registration office located in the Hausmann’s garage. You’re simply signing up to shoot the 12 ga course, period. No need to mention the FPC. Before you shoot, bring your scorecard to the Fox tables (located out by the Bo-Whoop stand). Here is where a Fox or Parker official will register you for the FPC. Immediately after shooting, return your score card to the Fox tables for recording. After tabulating, it will be returned to the registration desk at Hausmann’s.

Any gun may be used (10 GA thru .410). The gunner will specify the maker and gauge when signing up at the AHFCA tables. You may shoot more than one qualification round (utilizing the same maker’s gun) with a separate signup and fee due each time.

4) Qualification round(s) may be shot all day on Thursday June 4th and up until 2p.m on Friday June 5th. Completed scorecards must be back into the AHFCA tables no later than 2 p.m. on Friday, NO EXCEPTIONS. A blackboard in place there will rank the lead qualifiers and will be updated as scores are tallied throughout the day.

5) The Top-5, high-scoring Fox and Parker shooters will be selected for the respective Challenge Teams.

[Autumn Daze]

Page 2


) The Fox–Parker Challenge round will be conducted on Hidden Hollow’s “Crazy Quail” field at 3 p.m. sharp on Friday, June 5th. A flip of the coin will decide the first team to shoot. “Crazy Quail” is a type of “flurry” however the timing between target releases will be lengthened slightly, to enhance target acquisition.

7) A total of 125 targets will be thrown for each team of 5 gunners. High cumulative score will decide the 2015 winning team. The cumulative score for each team will be calculated as follows: The sum of scores recorded by the Hidden Hollow scorer + the official Parker scorer + the official Fox scorer. That sum will be divided by three (3) and rounded to the second decimal place. (Each scorer will use a hand operated mechanical counter.)

8) In the event of a trap malfunction during a team’s attempt at the Challenge targets, the Hidden Hollow official will void that team’s score and a new round of 125 targets will be shot.

9) The wearing of Eye and Ear protection is required of all competitors.

10) All Hidden Hollow/NSCA rules will apply for ammunition and maximum allowed shot size.

11) All shooters who qualify for the Challenge Team will receive an official Fox/Parker
Hat to commemorate this epic contest.

11. All shooters must have fun, be safe and conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike manner becoming of these two, fine organizations!

[Autumn Daze]

John, If possible could you make this thread "Sticky"?

[George M. Purtill Member #28]

I don't like the self scoring of the qualification round and I have heard others complain. Can't we at least have Fox and PG shooters be required shoot together and to score each others cards?

[Cold Spring]

Just my opinion here. I too don't like the self scoring for qualifications but realistically most of the shooters go for multiple rounds on the HH courses over the qualification days, and the logistics of getting a mix of Fox and Parker shooters on each squad for every round would be imposing. IMO the bottom line is that each organization wants its very best shooters to compete in the F-P Challenge and thus I think it's best left to the organizations to ask members not to do things like "seeing chips" where there are none, or calling for a re-do bird when it's missed because "it was off the flight path", etc etc. In the latter example the best rule is: if you shot it you bought it.

So, what would you all think of a shooter who shoots lights out on the self scoring qualification round, but he bombs out when up for the real Challenge? Yeah right!

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

Gentleman,

The qualification rounds are self scoring but the actual Fox - Parker challenge is watched by a hundred spectators and each team.

What good would it be to cheat one's way onto a challenge team then to contribute little to the team score?

An example is me last year. I shot a rather good round if clays with 14 pound DH 8 gauge. My score was 38 and high of 10 or more Parker and Fox guys and gals on the squad. Team Parker asked me to shoot for them in competition that afternoon. I declined because of three reasons.
1. I had bought only 8 and 10 gauges guns and did not think that a 10 gauge would be legal since Fox never made a gun in that gauge.
2. An 8 gauge is a cannon! The square of a gun's bore is a factor in total air pressure generated by each shot. I was exhausted after shooting my little cannon.
3. Although I had shot the high score of the squad I had done so with a light 8 gauge load, 1 & 3/4 ounces of shot! My integrity would not allow me to claim a position on the Parker squad.

In the end Debbie F. got to shoot and she loved it! I was pleased that she could experience competition by representing team Parker.

In the end it is the shooters abilities much more than the guns. I own both Parkers and Fox guns and love them all.

Mark

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Mark Ouellette

Gentleman,


An example is me last year. I shot a rather good round if clays with 14 pound DH 8 gauge. My score was 38 and high of 10 or more Parker and Fox guys and gals on the squad. Team Parker asked me to shoot for them in competition that afternoon. I declined because of three reasons.
1. I had bought only 8 and 10 gauges guns and did not think that a 10 gauge would be legal since Fox never made a gun in that gauge.
2. An 8 gauge is a cannon! The square of a gun's bore is a factor in total air pressure generated by each shot. I was exhausted after shooting my little cannon.
3. Although I had shot the high score of the squad I had done so with a light 8 gauge load, 1 & 3/4 ounces of shot! My integrity would not allow me to claim a position on the Parker squad.

Mark

Just because A.H. Fox company provided their customers with such a limited variety of shotgun guages should not disqualify your big Parker's Mark. Fox Collectors should have to live with those poor marketing decisions of yester year

Seriously I doubt many folks would think trying to swing a gun that heavy and long would be an advantage on clays. You did really well with that beast last year.

[Autumn Daze]

Gents, Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions. Steve and I have worked pretty hard on trying to cover all the bases. And we will continue to tweek this event as we go forward. Let me address a few of your concerns... As far a scoring goes I agree with Frank that having mixed squads would be a logistical nightmare. As Daryl says those that cheat will always cheat. Trust me that behavior will show up on the Crazy Quail! The only losers will be the squad you are shooting for. As far as ejectors go....no problem. And if Mark wants to shoot his 8. Good for him. Lest us not forget this an amature event being shot by gentlemen who love these old guns. See ya all at Ernie,s ....

[Autumn Daze]

Oh ya .....almost forgot.... The PGCA and the Fox Collectors will be sharing a tent together at the Bo Whoop this year it. So come on down!

[George M. Purtill Member #28]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

Just my opinion here. I too don't like the self scoring for qualifications,.... IMO the bottom line is that each organization wants the very best shooters to compete in the F-P Challenge...... what would you all think of a shooter who shoots lights out on the self scoring qualification round, but he bombs out when up for the real Challenge? Yeah right!

Good points all Frank
I have never really shot in the FP challenge because I couldn't spend enough time there. I'm not that good either unless I am shooting my 10 gauge crusher and that's not Fox equivalent. But I heard the complaints two years ago and I heard them down at the Southern. I did like the way the LCS/PG challenge was done- official scoring and then they shot for trophy at the same game- 5 stand.
I don't think that shooting sporting clays for qualification is consistent with shooting flurry for trophy. Its apples to tomatoes. But maybe there is no other way to do it.