BHE: Odd Gun and Odd Situation

[ArtS]

Just an interesting gun and interesting situation I thought were interesting. I discussed this with Dean a couple of times and thought I would pass it on.

A local shop had a decent CHE in stock and I went to examine it. Gun looked to be not original as to wood finish, but I believe the price could be adjusted. I thought I had found it in the rack, but when I picked it up, it was not the right gun. The manager told me it was a consignment and after several showings and no offers, the owner had picked it up. The gun I was holding was a different gun, a BHE with a straight stock. It had been left for consignment and the price was not set. The number I was given was a steal if original but it had a low grade Parker straight style stock from a different Parker. It was in good condition as was the rest of the gun in all original shape. Someone had switched the stocks. I made arrangements to come back with my tools and really examine the gun in the next 7-10 days.

When I returned, the gun was gone and the manager didn't know where it had gone. The perception was that the owner of the shop had the gun for some reason, but no one seemed to really know. Since that time, I have not seen the gun again.

The gun turned out to be interesting. It was a BHE ordered for Frank G. Simpson of Winnepeg CA the end of November 1907 and delivered the first of February 1908. It was ordered DuBray. The gun was ordered as a pigeon or target gun. No safety, straight dimensions, targeted with 1-1/4oz #4 loads. The engraving was ordered as A style all floral engraving. The gun was specified with no butt plate at all and full engraving of the entire fore end. I had to presume his intent was to install a plate or pad custom fit to his length and needs. He specified the pitch of the gun but no specific LOP. Very detailed and very specific.

Some searching revealed that he was a prominent businessman and a well known trap shooter. An article from the Manitoba Historical Society stated that he was an ardent sportsman involved in trapshooting, winning many championships; also a fisherman, golfer and hunter. His father had been the Chief Factor of the Hudson's Bay Company at one time. I found numerous records of his trapshooting experience. A pen and ink drawing from the MHS writeup portrays him as a healthy guy holding a Parker shotgun. I suspect he had several.

This is where conjecture comes in. The time line and his experience could lead you to think that he ordered the gun with the 1908 Summer Olympics in mind. I found a Google link reporting a listing with his name associated on a Canadian website of national Olympic wins. The site only listed winners, of which Canada had a lot in the shooting sports. He was not listed in the winners but with his experience it is not unreasonable to think that he was a team member that didn't compete or didn't win. Possibly he was an alternate.

I would have been great if the gun could have been documented as an Olympic competitor. However, the letter I attached makes that a hard sell. The specs on the gun show it was ordered with cast off at the heel 1/4" and cast off at the toe of 2-1/2"! I can't imagine a normal man using such a stock. The only explanation is that he ordered it for a wife or daughter. This may also explain the floral engraving specified. I have seen English guns built this way for women. This is the period of Annie Oakley and women were starting to get involved.

Whatever the situation, if the gun had it's original spec'd stock it would have been just as hard a sell as it now exists with a low grade replacement. The original stock may not have worked out at all and explain the cheap replacement. What ever the truth, I would have liked to see the original gun.

[edgarspencer]

I could see 1/4" Heel cast and 1/2" Toe cast. But 2 1/2", I can't even picture such a thing.

[Stan Hillis]

Look at the pic of the original owner, Edgar. His head is huge in comparison to the rest of his body. Poor fellow NEEDED strange dimensions to be able to shoulder a gun at all!

[edgarspencer]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

Look at the pic of the original owner, Edgar. His head is huge in comparison to the rest of his body. Poor fellow NEEDED strange dimensions to be able to shoulder a gun at all!

If, in real life, he looked like his caricature, finding a hat must have been as hard as getting fitted for a gun. If that toe cast was really 2 1/2", then the stock would have been about 30 degrees out of plumb. And here I was thinking sinistral stocks were weird.

[Dean Romig]

A wonderful BHE Art and a good story.
I would like to have seen the pics and story in Parker Pages.
I may have told you of the 2-barrel/ 2-gauge (20/28) AAHE I know of that was ordered with “full floral engraving like the B” obviously he had been in the showroom where he saw a B grade gun like he described when he ordered his AAHE.
I hope you have it appropriately restocked…. but that would be expensive (but that BHE deserves it).





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[ArtS]

I didn't get the gun. In fact I have not been able to see it again since the initial few snapshots. That is what makes the story kind of strange. I suspect some problem between the dealer and owner. I have not been able to get a clear story of where the gun ended up. If I had known I would have tried to get more pictures of the gun, such as the fore end checkering. I did the research before going back to measure the gun.

[Larry the Gun Guy]

Well that just goes to show you that sometimes you just have to step up and make the deal right then and there or the opportunity is lost forever. Occasionally, when we're staring at one of these great guns, we don't know what's staring back at us. It's only later, when the opportunity has past, that we learn what just slid by. I think it's happened to all of us at one time or another. Or, more than a few times in my case. And I have the boot marks on the back of my pants to prove it.

[Scott Gentry]

I had a gun that lettered like this with No Butt Plate and it was simply just that with the bottom of butt checkered, really liked it.
Good luck on maybe finding it again.

[ArtS]

Originally Posted by Larry Stauch

Well that just goes to show you that sometimes you just have to step up and make the deal right then and there or the opportunity is lost forever. Occasionally, when we're staring at one of these great guns, we don't know what's staring back at us. It's only later, when the opportunity hss past, that we learn what just slid by. I think it's happened to all of us at one time or another. Or, more than a few times in my case. And I have the boot marks on the back of my pants to prove it.

I guess my post was a little confusing as to the details of what happened vs the gun.

1) I went to the store with the intent of trying to buy a CHE they had listed.

2) When I got there the gun I was there to buy had been picked up by the consignee.

3) In its place they had the BHE which had been brought in to consign, but they only had a price range and no firm data.

4) I told them I was definitely interested and would be back soon to measure the gun an negotiate a price once they had a firm ask. I also asked them to contact the consignee of the CHE and ask him to bring the gun back for a viewing. I believe it likely that they were both owned by a local collector and they were not going to tell me his identity and be cut out of the deal. I respect that because if it were me, I wouldn't wanting the dealer divulging my identity to a stranger.

5) When I returned, no one at the store seemed to know where the gun was, and I have not been able to get access to the gun since then.

I found this all frustrating and odd, since I didn't turn the gun down. I in fact was actively trying to buy it and another gun, but was never given the opportunity to do so.

[Bill Murphy]

I have had a similar situation with a Maryland dealer. It seem that all I had to do is show interest and the gun is "not for sale".