VHE Trap

[Dennis Eskey]

I'm looking at a VHE that is advertised as a trap gun. Other than 32" barrels and a trap forend, I see nothing to convince me that it's a factory trap model. No single trigger, no ventilated rib, no safety delete, etc. Is there a "rule of thumb" (sorry, had to ask) as to the attributes that a true factory VHE Trap would have? I probably don't have time to get a letter on it and that may not help anyway. ??? Thanks.

[Mark Conrad]

The true test are the stock dimensions. Shooters liked double triggers and they are more relieable than the early SST. Most trap guns had safties but they were non-auto. If the stock dimensions are 1 3/8" x 2" x 14 1/2" or close to this, I would say the gun was intended for trap use.

Mark

[Dennis Eskey]

Mark, thankyou. Good points. No concern with the lack of the ventilated rib?

[J.B. Books]

My understanding is a "Trap" gun would be configured with; 30" or longer bbls (might have vent rib), most likley to have double beads, tight chokes, might have a BTFE, might be equipped with a SST, could be P/G or straight grip stock that is considered "high" or "straight" (not as much drop as a field gun), stock might have what is called a "full comb", safety might be non-automatic, automatic or possibly no safety at all.

Lots of owner discretion involved with a trap gun, the basics are long barrels,tight chokes, straight stocks.

What I would like; 30" barrels tight chokes but one more open than the other for shooting the first target in doubles, double beads, a BTFE (barrel heat can be uncomfortable in summer), a SST (easier for doubles), a full comb, a straight stock with about 2 1/8" DAH.

[Bruce Day]

Pete, dead on, except that Rem-Parker cataloged a "Parker Double Barrel Trap Gun" which had as standard: any grade, 12ga, recoil pad, SST, beavertail forend, 30 or 32", vent rib, 14 3/8", 1 1/2DAC, 1 7/8"DAH, any grip, Monte Carlo optional, non auto safety. See Rem Parker catalog, p. 27.

But the V in question is a long way from the Double Barrel Trap. We've been through this trap gun or live bird gun issue many times with few real identifiers besides long barrels and high stock.

[Dennis Eskey]

I'll obviously have to check these additional areas, particularly the stock dimensions. Right now all I have is a 12ga. VHE advertised as a trap model w/32" barrels, F&F, beavertail forend, straight stock,twin ivory beads, double triggers and a 1928 serial number. Thanks again.

[J.B. Books]

Bruce I believe we can/should differentiate between a "Trap" gun and a Parker "Double Trap". I saw the question as what makes a "Trap" gun. I think it is important to note that Parker purposefully built guns for trap shooting before the "Double Trap" was marketed. The gun as described is not a "Double Trap" but may indeed by a "Trap" gun.

[Bruce Day]

No, you're right Pete. I was just adding to your comment, not differing with you at all. Parker made lots of guns that could be called trap guns, some could be used for anything and a few were specialized trap guns. I believe that it was not until the early 1930's that Parker made something that they actually cataloged as a trap gun yet they had obviously made trap guns for many years ( not counting the single barrel guns). Then as now, trap shooters had their individual ideas about what they wanted in a trap gun, and recalling that the national trapshooting champion for several years running shot a cheap single barrel Mod 37 Winchester.

Dennis, it may be splitting hairs, but I would not call that V a "trap model". I would call it a "trap configuration", not that it makes a hill of any difference.

[Dennis Eskey]

If I remember from the Parker Story (Trap Gun Section) they mentioned a trap gun being made available in 1928. ??? That date, I remember, did seem to jive with the 1928 date on this gun. (Again discounting the SBT's)

Bruce, I can certainly appreciate your point. Any gun could have been bought in any configuration for any buyer. And for that reason, perhaps the question has no real answer and anything with long barrels and a high stock is a "maybe"......end of story. ????

I just hope that when I go to sell it the buyer doesn't ask me the same questions that I'm asking you guys and the current seller.

[Austin W Hogan]

Returning to Dennis' original query: what constitutes a Parker Trap Gun?

We credit our good friend and frequent contributor Ken Waite Jr on this.

Ken had a very nice display of Parker trap/live bird guns at the last Vintagers Concours at Sandanona. The lighting in the display area was not good, but we carried photos of the display in Parker Pages. There were straight grips pistol grips auto safeties and no safeties and several grades mixed through this display.
We carried a tabulation of dimensions and weights of guns used at a major tournament in the Iron Men series again contributed by Ken
Mark Conrad searched the archives for several names in Iron Men and did identify guns purchased by those individuals. These usually specified stock dimensions, and sometimes trigger pull; many were returned for pattern adjustment.
We have been able to examine a few guns sold by DuBray and made to measurements obtained at a shooting event. No safety, trigger pull and cast are sometimes noted in these orders. We have also had the coincidence of the availabity of a bore gauge and a DuBray ordered gun. The bore gauge read .740 and found some "different" choke tapers as noted in the most recent Parker Pages on some occassions. We do not have sufficient measurements to determine the frequency of the 740 bore in DuBray competitor orders.

The sum of all this is that there is no physical feature that uniquely identifies a Parker trap gun. This takes us to the accompanying thread. What type of provenance significantly ties a Parker gun to a competitive event?

Best, Austin