Another hint that Parker made their own barrels

[Joe Wood]

Ran across this reference to Parker making their own barrels. Check out page 681 of this Google book: http://books.google.com/books?id=bow...age&q=&f=false .

Interesting reading.

[Tim Sheldon]

If they did, wouldn't the evidence be overwhelming? I'd say the Damascus guns came from Belgium, maybe some of the Fluid Steel Guns came in from local companies that Parker Bros. partnered with or set up some sort of business relationship so that legally they could market the barrels as being made by Parker Bros. Just an idea, shoot'en from the hip.

Tim

[Drew Hause]

W.A. King said they did in 1912

The testimony of W.A. King representing the Parker Gun Co.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QDk...&lr=#PPA893,M1

Mr. King. I can speak only for our own company in so far as wages go. For instance, on the question of barrels, Mr. Hunter informed your committee that some years ago some of the manufacturers of this country attempted to make barrels. We made some barrels: we built an addition to the factory, put in some up-to-date machinery, and brought some men from Belgium to show our blacksmiths how to do it. Wo had to pay our blacksmiths not less than 32 cents an hour, up to 40 cents, and we gave it up, because the highest wages paid the Belgian blacksmiths for exactly the same grade of barrel are 11 cents per hour. That is what is paid to the highest-priced man employed.

Senator Smoot. In Belgium ?

Mr. King, In Belgium: yes, sir. That is where all of our barrels are imported from, with the exception of our very high-grade Whipple steel barrels. (?transcription error?)

Senator Lodge. Those are rough-bored barrels.

Mr. King. Rough-bored only.

The Chairman. Do you make any barrels at all?

Mr. King. We make no barrels whatever.

[Drew Hause]

And at least one back action lifter had barrels made in Birmingham



I am of the opinion (which is worth little) based on the transition from 3 Iron "Oxford" to 4 and 6 Iron "Turkish" on Grade 3 and up guns, that lifter damascus barrels were from England and top lever barrels were from Belgium.

[Don Kaas]

I would bet "Whipple" steel is "Whitworth" steel...

[Old and Reliable]

I would second the learned Mr. Kass' opinion- a typo. Wonder what happened to the addition Mr. King referred to for the barrels? Also curious, to me, his reference to his employees at that point in time as "blacksmiths" if i read this correctly.

LC Smith (the Mr. Hunter mentioned) dealt with Krupp and Whitworth- at least until WW1 era- but also Crucible, Halcomb Steel and Sanderson Bros. Mr. Houchin's book page 387 details that, apparently Crucible bought both Halcomb and Sanderson Bros.

No mention of Carpenter Steel (Latrobe PA.) in the Houchin's book, but in Lt. Col. Brophy's 1981 book on Smith plans and specs. Carpenter Steel is the main "call-out" for the various parts machined from tool steel(s) and not 1020.

As a "amateur metalurgist" I have always been fascinated by the various barrel steel grades Parker and Smith used. I am guessing that they are were the same basic AISI nickel steel. Would a set of Acme steel barels on a CHE have a higher tensile strength (after stress relieving) than those Trojan steel barrels on Parker's workhorse shotgun??

I think, and this is just a pure guesstimate, not grounded in fact, that just as the grade, checkering and finish of the stock wood in a Smith Grade 1 was different than that found on a Monogram, their sales/marketing folks decided to "upgrade" the barrel steel names to convince their customers they were getting better steel and wood when they bought a Monogram or a BHE- just a guess--

[Drew Hause]

Sanderson Steel was started in England in 1776 and Sanderson Bros. Steel Co. started the 'Syracuse Works' in 1876, supplying Nitro and Crown fluid steel barrels to Hunter Arms starting in 1895, Armor in 1898, and Royal in 1901. Sanderson used the brand name "Sanderson Bros. & Co." and was one of 13 companies that formed Crucible Steel Co. in 1901.
Halcomb Steel Co. opened in 1905, and L.C. was on the Board of Directors. Halcomb supplied London steel for 0 grades and Royal steel for the hammer guns starting in 1907. Crucible Steel bought Halcomb in 1911.
"Crown" was the brand name of the Crown and Cumberland Steel Co., Allegany County, Maryland

[MarketHunter]

There's a fairly long article that John Davis found and was reprinted in Parker Pages about Parker making their own barrels. I don't know what issue but I'm sure somebody remembers.

DLH

[Austin W Hogan]

Dave Suponski and Larry Frey are experienced tool engineers. We have been passing things around and looking into this with hope of finding first how damascus or twist barrels were turned and bored. Speeds and feeds of cutting tools are dependent on the material being cut; how do you pick a speed and feed for two dissimilar materials twisted together?

There are many Parker barrels with proof marks with serials in the low thousands. Most of these have the barrel flats brazed on indicating the barrels were purchased turned prior to delivery to Parker. King revolutionized barrel finishing with his patented turning process and forging of the flats. The British are thought to have ground the contour on damascus barrels; King's patent has a cutter on the tool post. Turning Parker barrels from rough tubes began somewhere before s/n 3000.

According to John's article, Parker manufactured laminated tubes around the 10 - 15000 serial range. They were laminated in three sections and forged together. We think they may have been marked with P on the flats. There are a few grade 5 laminated barrels that are quite handsome. There are some grade 3 barrels that do look like three pieces of pipe welded together.

There is a discontinuity in the printed word relative to Parker Barrel manufacture in the twentieth century. Parker catalogs contain the statement relative to Acme barrels "we have always made these barrels ourselves" The first Acmes appear at around s/n 134000, or 1906. The testimony before congress was cited as 1912. This could be a scanning font error.

We know that Parker was making barrels in the 1920's from Charlie Parker's story about the visitor's suit being soaked with oil when the boring bit went through the side of a bar being bored.

It is likely that Vulcan barrels were made of a faster cutting steel than higher grades, as it was necessary to turn 40 V barrels a day, or more to maintain production.

It is possible that Trojan barrels were outsourced as there was no variation in length or choke offered, and it was also necessary to make more than 40 Trojan barrels a day to meet production

Best, Austin

[Old and Reliable]

Very informative Austin- I have wondered about that as well. How do you set a compund lathe to turn the final contour on somewhat dis-similar ferrous alloyed metals, dis-similar as to free machining characteristics? I also recall the story about the visitor and the oil spray from the barrel boring operation, believe I read about it in my copy of the Peter Johnson book.

Very interesting the data about the need to produce both 40 V grade and later 40 Trojan grade barrels to meet production- I am curious, would that mean 40 individual tubes, or does that mean 40 barrel sets?