Assembled or Not

[Parker Bachelder (Brad's Profile)]

Within the current thread regarding colorcase hardening, the question arose on how parts were run. Without taking away from the other thread I would like to present some examples that should help clarify the question.
The following pictures are of a salvaged Trojan and a Remington Whitmore. The Parker was cased 5 years ago, the Remington 2 weeks ago, notice the trigger plates on each gun, they do not totally match the receiver. As with Bruces Trojan pictures it is easy to assume that the parts were run separately. They were not, both guns were run assembled. The type of metal and thickness differences account for the seperate piece appearance.With that said, I assume that the guns were color cased in an assembled state. In our tests, triggerplates cased without the reciever, warped to an unusable state.

Brad

[ed good]

makes sense to heat it up and quench it all together in order avoid warping.

[Bruce Day]

Brad, thanks. Related issue: the Parker factory had frame straightening fixtures which they sometimes had to use. I am aware that some contemporary shops have occasional warpage after the re-color case hardening process and in some instances, they were never able to get the frame right again.
Can you address the dreaded warpage issue, or not to put you on the spot, would this topic be better left for a presentation/discussion perhaps at an annual meeting such as you came to last year?

[Parker Bachelder (Brad's Profile)]

Bruce
Until the last ten years or so the process was done by only a handful of individuals, skilled or well trained in the field. Dr. Gadys article opened the door to experimentation. Brownells marketed it as a simple process and made the basic equipment available. It is not a simple process like caustic bluing and many a fine gun has been ruined by bluing.
Warpage is some thing that happens only when a mistake is made. Shrinkage unlike warpage is benefit to case hardening. With great care shrinkage can be controlled. Even with the great number of guns that I have cased, I still draw a bead of sweat everytime I open the furnace and grab a crucible.
I am not aware of a complete set of instructions on the process. What I have seen is only an introduction.
Iam not positive, but I believe the straightening fixtures were used during the soft fitting stage prior to hardening. Much torque is applied to fitting causing the parts to move.
In the early years I spent a considerable amount of time at Smith & Wesson, back when they built guns. From the forges to maching, soft fitting, hard fitting, heat treat, and finishing. I gleened a tremendous of knowlege from that experience.
Strict unwavering diciplines must by applied to every process to gain acceptable results. One can not learn that from a set of instructions.

Brad

[GH-16]

Brad,

Thank you for sharing your insights with us.

Your last sentence speaks the loudest.

"one can not learn that from a set of instructions"

I'm a tradesman diesel/locomotive mechanic with 40 years worth of experience gleened from the school of hard knocks. I can troubleshoot and quickly repair locomotives that others wonder how I do it. All I can tell them is I learned it by getting my hands greasy and paying attention to detail in the process of skinning my knuckles. You've learned your trade the same way and I appreciate you sharing your hard earned knowledge with us.

As I've told you before. I would love to be able to sit down with you in your shop and have a long conversation about all things mechanical including gun restoration. I know your my kind of guy.

Thanks again,

Paul

[Ruff Hunter]

Brad,

When the day comes that you find yourself on the brink of retirement, I would suggest that you consider publishing a detailed and extensive book on case color hardening, divulging all the detailed processes, formulas and secrets of the craft that you have learned and employed over the years. There are plenty of explanatory and "how to" books on bluing, stock making, checkering, engraving, mechanical gunsmithing and even custom gun building in publication.

There is nothing of the sort on bone charcoal case color hardening. The closest we have is Dr Gaddy's two published articles in DGJ which, as you noted, divulged just enough information to open the door to experimentation. Aside from gaining recognition, if not immortality, and perhaps generating some income; the most compelling reason for someone in your virtually unique position to publish a detailed book on the process is for the future protection and preservation of vintage doubles.

Some will not enjoy the thought of it, but the fact remains that people--qualified and otherwise--will always seek to restore vintage doubles with new case colors. In the absence of a definitive instruction manual, as is the case today, far too many vintage guns will continue to be ruined by high heat warpage, or result in period inaccurate colors and patterns. With a detailed treatise in circulation, much of the current experimentation will not be necessary, and the ruination of many old doubles would be prevented as a result.

In any event, if you ever do decide to publish such a book, put me down for a signed copy of the first one that rolls off the printing press.

[Opening Day]

"As I've told you before. I would love to be able to sit down with you in your shop and have a long conversation about all things mechanical including gun restoration. I know your my kind of guy."

No Paul, you can not sit down with him at the shop, he has work to do (ie my 10 ga ) Just kidding , it's fun to go into the back of the shop and have him show you around and see the pride he takes in his work. Eric

[Paul Harm]

I'm thankfull that I live only a couple of hours from Brad so it's not so far that a gun can't be hand delivered to him . He does great work and stands behind it. And his wood working skills - I'm just amazed at the repairs he's shown me - you can't see anything -like new. Paul

[Eric Estes]

A follow on question to CCHing an assembled receiver. Not having any in depth knowledge of any heat treating or hardening processes I wondered if you would remove springs from the assembly before CCH? I have no idea if the temperature is high enough to affect spring steel properties. I was also curious if one would remove the hammers from a hammer gun before CCHing a receiver assembly?

Thanks Brad for sharing some of your knowledge and experience developing your CCH processes. It is a craft that few ever master.

[Paul Harm]

Eric, I've made springs for muzzleloading locks, and sometimes for my SxS's. The draw temps would be below the CCHing temps [ IMO ] so I believe all parts are removed before CChing. The hammers and sears are also hardend and I think the temp from CCHing would ruin them. Maybe Brad will reply. Paul