LOW PRESSURE LOADS

[Pittypatdugan]

Time and time again everyone advises to check your barrels for soundness and shoot low pressure loads in the old Parkers without modern steel barrels. Sherman Bell has convinced me that the old Damascus and Twist barrels that are in good shape are as strong as the newer ones made by Parker. What PSI shells do most of you shooters of the old Parkers feel most comfortable with? The ones I have been shooting in 12 GA are by the reloading chart 6400 to 6500 PSI with 1 1/8 shot .


PDD

[Autumn Daze]

Pat,I stay right around 6000 in my composite barreled guns but I throw an ounce of shot

[VH20]

If the barrels are in good shape and have good wall thickness, I'm comfortable with anything up to about 7000. This seems to be an oft-repeated figure among many shooters. I believe this is about what a standard vintage black powder load would generate.

All of my target loads actually are significantly lower than 7K, but some of my field loads are pretty close, or right there at it (turkey loads).

One day I was shooting Sporting Clays with my 2-frame DH damascus gun. I was shooting with a friend and we were using his golf cart. I didn't realize it, but he was shooting factory loads in an identical box and using the same hull as my low pressure target reloads. Somehow we got switched and I had shot nearly a full box of his factory loads (Federal promo 1-1/8 oz.) before I realized the mistake. The old DH didn't care one bit. Since promo loads are designed to work well in autoloaders, I'm sure they are over 8k at least. The friend whose shells I accidently pilfered was shooting them through a fairly light Francotte damascus gun, and has done so without a second thought for years. My gasp at realizing my mistake was a non-issue to him.

On another occasion, I had welded a pinhole in a 2-frame damascus GH barrel, about 7 inches from the breech. It appeared to be a factory defect as there was no corrosion anywhere near it. It was between the ribs and never would have showed up if I hadn't refinished the damascus pattern (found it by the leak into the bore). We stripped the ribs, welded the hole and re-laid the ribs (and refinished the barrels...again). I proof tested that gun with a few factory loads that Kent listed at 8100 psi. No problems, so I stuck a Winchester Super-X 3-3/4 dram, 1-1/4 oz. load in it and pulled the string on the trigger (gun tied to a tire and me behind a steel drum). Again, no problem. A bore mic showed no changes at all anywhere in the barrel. I don't know what the Super-X pressure was, but judging from the roar and recoil, I'd guess it had to be pretty high (although that's not proof that it is).

Jim

[Harry Collins]

Most of my reloads are in the 5000 psi range. I have shot a round of sporting clays with factory Winchester AA XtraLite 1 oz loads @ about 8400 psi through an 1881 lifter Parker with Twist barrels. I am low on on IMR 7625 powder and have been loading AA hulls with WST and 1 oz of shot @ 7400 psi through my Twist and Damascus Parkers. After Sherman Bell blew up my VH, I felt much as you do about these guns being able to handle anything. However, out of deference to the old wood, steel and me, I try to keep the pressures and recoil to a minimum.

Harry

[ch]

I got a suprise ordered 4 boxes of rst tens when the box showed up on my porch I thought they forgot 2 boxes opened it OH little boxes:-). Very good shells the ol 10 talked again. I agree, theres something about a 10.

ch

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Pat Dugan

Time and time again everyone advises to check your barrels for soundness and shoot low pressure loads in the old Parkers without modern steel barrels.


Response: I think "everyone" urges shooters to check for barrel soundness and wall thickness. However, not everyone, Parker for example, differentiated between damascus and modern fluid steel. Parker published tables based upon gun ga and wt, regardless of barrel composition and those tables are readily available.


Sherman Bell has convinced me that the old Damascus and Twist barrels that are in good shape are as strong as the newer ones made by Parker.


Response: Me too.


What PSI shells do most of you shooters of the old Parkers feel most comfortable with? The ones I have been shooting in 12 GA are by the reloading chart 6400 to 6500 PSI with 1 1/8 shot .


PDD

Response: I load for ga and wt/powder, per Parker tables. I don't like to shoot high recoil shells, since I often shoot 100 to 150 shells in a session. For 12ga,I like 1 oz loads at 2 3/4dre or 1200fps. I load for recoil rather than pressure per se, however, most of what I shoot ends up in the 7000 to 8500 psi range, even new out of the box shells. The Parker load tables for 12ga gave 1 1/8oz, 3 dre for the light 12's and 1 1/4oz, 3 1/2dre for the heavier ones, again without barrel composition differentiation. Most powder today develops more pressure and velocity than the bulk smokeless Parker used to develop their loads, so I tend to load down. I believe a Parker gun today is capable of heavy loads and I have shoot up to 1 1/4oz and 3 1/4dre at waterfowl through a heavy 12, but for clays, I like to load down so I don't develop a flinch, flinch, flinch.

[VH20]

Originally Posted by Harry Collins

Most of my reloads are in the 5000 psi range.

After Sherman Bell blew up my VH, I felt much as you do about these guns being able to handle anything. However, out of deference to the old wood, steel and me, I try to keep the pressures and recoil to a minimum.

Harry

Me, too Harry. My target load is Sherman's "pet" load. It is a 7/8 oz. load around 5400 psi. It uses Clays powder (in very small amounts - 18gr.) and Claybuster replacement wads for the Fed 12SO. It uses the Fed. promo hull with the fiber base wad. These can be obtained in mass quantities at the range for free. All in all, this is about the cheapest load to shoot I can think of, and it is very easy on old guns. I don't think I notice much difference in score between 7/8 vs. 1 oz. of shot.

Jim

[Bill Murphy]

Jim, I hit the "thanks" button because you not only gave us the anecdote about welding the pinhole in a barrel, but you introduced our readers to the Federal SO wad and the knockoff of that wad. They are wonderful wads, much more resistent to tipping in the loader than are the Winchester wads made for the same light loads. Tipping is a big problem for consistent loads and should be eliminated as much as possible. Just one look at the Federal SO wad or its knockoffs will show you that it is much stronger and resistent to tipping than is the Winchester wad. I have been using the SO for 7/8 ounce loads for many years and continue to use it today.

[Pa SxS]

I've been using the components Jim talks about for years but within the last 2 years I've switched from Clays to Clay Dot due to it being a little cheaper.

If you look at the Alliant web site for a 1oz load, you'll notice that load using Clay Dot, produces 5,850psi. Checking the Hodgdon's web site, the same load produces 7.700psi. A difference of almost 1,000psi. This data is for the Gold Medal Plastic hull but I would think substituting a Top Gun or Estate hull would be similar.

Since Alliant says Clay Dot is similar to Clay's, I e-mailed Alliant to make sure their data was correct per the psi. According to their reply, the data is correct.

I usually stay at 17.5 grains of Clay Dot in the Estate hull whether or not I use 1oz or 7/8oz of shot however in the winter I stay with 1oz due to incomplete burning and some off sounding loads when using 7/8 oz in real cold weather

[Pittypatdugan]

I mostly shoot trap with 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2's in the low pressure loads. Most of you seem to shoot mostly 1 oz. An I wasting the 1/8 oz extra in shot?
I shoot an 1879 Twist underlifter with 28 in uncut barrels with IM in both barrels.

thanks in advance for the information

PDD