Frames?

[Clarence Kavanaugh]

I recently registered on your forum to get information concerning the Parker shotgun. I practically know nothing about the firearm other then it is considered one of the great American shotgun if not "thee" greatest produced.

My question is concerning the differences between the frame sizes that I keep hearing about (0, 00, 1-4). I'm not much interested in the guns prior to the forged steel barrels and to be more specific, I'm mostly interested in guns that are either in the 20 or 28 gauge range.

I would also like to know how the reproductions guns match up to the original as far as adherring to the specs or have the manufactures taken liberties?

Thank you!

[Bruce Day]

[QUOTE=Clarence Kavanaugh;10272]I recently registered on your forum to get information concerning the Parker shotgun. I practically know nothing about the firearm other then it is considered one of the great American shotgun if not "thee" greatest produced."


Response: The best source of information is The Parker Story, cost between $300 and 280. There is substantially complete information about Parkers and Parker Repros. I recommend purchase and study of TPS before getting into Parker purchases.


"My question is concerning the differences between the frame sizes that I keep hearing about (0, 00, 1-4)."

Response: Frame sizes are specific to gauges and weight within gauges. In the 12, there is much variation. Almost all 20's are 0 frame, all about post 1910 28's are 00 frame, since your interest is in 20's and 28's.



" I'm not much interested in the guns prior to the forged steel barrels and to be more specific, I'm mostly interested in guns that are either in the 20 or 28 gauge range."


Response: Parker used forged steel and iron in composite barrels, usually called Damascus. Parker used compressed, extruded fluid steel in later barrels although Damascus barrels were ordered by knowlegeable shooters until 1927. Twenty gauge Parkers are available in the lower grades with minimal searching and moderate expense.....$4000 -$5000 can get you a decent enough VHE. Twenty eight ga guns are scarce and costly. A nice 28ga VHE Parker will run you $16000-22000. Parker Repros in 28ga are much less costly. A nice 28 Repro can be had for $5000-6000.

Many people new to Parkers start with a Repro.


"I would also like to know how the reproductions guns match up to the original as far as adherring to the specs or have the manufactures taken liberties?"

Response: Repros were modeled after late Remington Parker guns and are very close to them , with parts interchangeable with originals. In Repros the engraving is not as deep, its machine cut, not hand engraved, the case colors are thin and easily worn. The wood used can be brittle and somewhat prone to fracture, so some have had to replace stocks after a fall. The stock finish is modern shiny and some have refinished their guns to make them more pleasing to the owner's eye. Repros are fine guns, appreciating in value and in a personal comment, I can't see how a new person can go wrong with a Repro.

[Clarence Kavanaugh]

[QUOTE=Bruce Day;10283]

Originally Posted by Clarence Kavanaugh

I recently registered on your forum to get information concerning the Parker shotgun. I practically know nothing about the firearm other then it is considered one of the great American shotgun if not "thee" greatest produced."


Response: The best source of information is The Parker Story, cost between $300 and 280. There is substantially complete information about Parkers and Parker Repros. I recommend purchase and study of TPS before getting into Parker purchases.


"My question is concerning the differences between the frame sizes that I keep hearing about (0, 00, 1-4)."

Response: Frame sizes are specific to gauges and weight within gauges. In the 12, there is much variation. Almost all 20's are 0 frame, all about post 1910 28's are 00 frame, since your interest is in 20's and 28's.



" I'm not much interested in the guns prior to the forged steel barrels and to be more specific, I'm mostly interested in guns that are either in the 20 or 28 gauge range."


Response: Parker used forged steel and iron in composite barrels, usually called Damascus. Parker used compressed, extruded fluid steel in later barrels although Damascus barrels were ordered by knowlegeable shooters until 1927. Twenty gauge Parkers are available in the lower grades with minimal searching and moderate expense.....$4000 -$5000 can get you a decent enough VHE. Twenty eight ga guns are scarce and costly. A nice 28ga VHE Parker will run you $16000-22000. Parker Repros in 28ga are much less costly. A nice 28 Repro can be had for $5000-6000.

Many people new to Parkers start with a Repro.


"I would also like to know how the reproductions guns match up to the original as far as adherring to the specs or have the manufactures taken liberties?"

Response: Repros were modeled after late Remington Parker guns and are very close to them , with parts interchangeable with originals. In Repros the engraving is not as deep, its machine cut, not hand engraved, the case colors are thin and easily worn. The wood used can be brittle and somewhat prone to fracture, so some have had to replace stocks after a fall. The stock finish is modern shiny and some have refinished their guns to make them more pleasing to the owner's eye. Repros are fine guns, appreciating in value and in a personal comment, I can't see how a new person can go wrong with a Repro.

Thank you Mr. Day for taking the time to response to my questions.

As you can see I'm about as knowledgeable on Parkers as a brick is. I'm now in my 50s and have decided that I would like a gentleman's gun and have fix my sights on a Parker base on their reputation for the quality of material/workmanship, their elegant appearance and reputed handling characteristics. I will take your advise and see if my local library can get the book "The Parker Story" on a lend program. I would prefer to put the $280-$300 towards a Parker if I still want to go this way after reading the book.

I would prefer to shoot the 2-3/4 shell, but noticed that most Parkers are listed as 2-1/2. Besides the Reproductions, is there a time period which Parker/Remington made this conversion to the 2-3/4 shells or is this something a smith that refinishes these fine guns could do by lengthen the chamber without harming the gun or its collectibility?

Also is the Reproductions fix chokes or screw in? I would prefer fix on a gun like this.

[Brush Buster]

Clarence; I have been trying since Bruce posted , to figure out how to scan and send this thing ,this is info. out of the " Parker Identification ,and Serialization Book " I hope this adds a little more light on what Bruce is explaining to you !

[Rod N. Gunn]

Some original Parkers have 2-3/4" chambers, a little shopping and you'll find one. Lengthening chambers does not enhance value and my reduce it. I think Bruce's idea of starting with a Reproduction is a good one. I own both and I have to say, my Repro.s spend a lot more time afield than my originals. This is especially true if you like the 28ga. Taking a $25,000 gun through briar patches and barbwire fences has got to bother even the wealthiest hunter. Shown below in the first photo are 1-1/2 frame DHE 12 gauges, one original one reproduction. Also shown are close-ups of the D grade engraving one original one reproduction. Warning: One's first Parker purchase is seldom his last.

[Brush Buster]

Also Clarence ,If you watch E-Bay you can generally pick up new books in the $250.00 range ,also if you want to take the time to go back through the pages of this forum ,a couple of weeks ago a member posted about some " seconds " for a very inexpensive price ,I believe $195.00 ,If I am not mistaking ! Maybe some one else will recall who that was and post the info. !

[Bruce Day]

Clarence, if you have been looking at this forum, you will see that there is a UP shoot in Channing MI in the summer and various other events around where Parker people congregate. Maybe go to one of those, swing the guns around, talk to people, get some help before you buy a gun. Its like buying a used car, you need to know what to look for.

The next big Parker event is that the PGCA has a double booth at Pheasant Fest in Des Moines Feb 26-28. We'll have maybe 40 Parkers there and the theme is upland game hunting guns. We are putting on a seminar Fri evening. Maybe be a good place to see some guns and talk. I've just learned that we are to be featured in the next to publish edition of Iowa Sportsman magazine as an attractant to Pheasant Fest.

[Labowner]

Clarence, on the chamber length issue I think most 12 ga. Parker's are 2 5/8 which has been discussed many times and seems the consensus is that the 2 5/8 chamber was for 2 3/4" paper shells, the eighth inch giving a better gas seal.

[Old and Reliable]

Welcome Clarence- always good to see another "Michi-Gander" on board here.
Bruce Day is 100% on target- with his details on frame size and gauge of Parkers, both Meriden, later Ilion (under Remington UMC) and finally the Olin Kodensha (sic) Reproductions.

If you want a 28 gauge, most likely the Repro would be the way to go. As others have stated here, a USA mfg. Parker in 28 gauge will command a high price, condition and originality also factoring into that equation.

If you can also consider the 20 gauge, you will be more into an "open market" that the "sellers market" for the 28 and .410 bores, and not just with Parkers but with other good shotguns as well.

I don't know how many gun shops there are in the BC area, I live in KE Kent Co., there are two Gander Mt. outlets, plus several gunsmith shops that also deal in good or even fine guns. As you most likely have determined by now, we are NOT allowed to buy, sell or trade Parkers (or other guns) on the PGCA Forum, a decision by ouir Board of Directors that I endorse.

I have no "irons in this fire" as I am strictly a 12 gauge man, and if I could have a Parker of my choosing, it would be a DHE std. 10 gauge with 32" Titanic steel barrels on the No. 2 frame, and if I found a DHE 28 gauge for sale privately I would pass and advise you or other members of it (assuming that act didn't break the "no sale on the PGCA rule" of course).

I am an avid waterfowler, after that preserve pheasants at our club, and then Tower shoots for both pheasants and sometimes pigeons. For all that, only a 12 qualifies, in my experience. Plus, 12 gauges are more easily found usually.

If you ever decide to take a day and visit GR and search for a Parker, let me know and perhaps we can meet up. I am retired and love to visit gun shops and sporting goods outlets. You never can tell.

If it were me and I were looking for my first Parker, assuming that a 20 gauge will handle what a 28 also can- I would look for a VH or VHE 20 with two triggers on the size O frame. I believe there were more Vulcan grades produced than any of the other graded Parkers, and you won't have to pay the premium for the scarcer 28 bore.

[Tim Kisieleski]

Clarence, I'm new to Parkers(jsut got my first vh, 16ga, thats gonna get tarted up ) But not new to older guns. With regard to chamber lenght, I have had chambers lengthened with the idea that I'd be able to shoot standard ammo out of them. What I have found is it's not that much fun to shoot "sharp" modern loads out of light game guns. When I buy Ammo, I order RST stuff from Alex(he'll ship right to your door), in 2 1/2" configuration. Either 3/4 or 7/8's oz. When I reload, I load 5/8, 3/4 and 7/8 oz stuff for all my guns, 12's, 16's ,20's and 28's(3/4 is the max for the 28, and the 12 wont get a 5/8), both older and modern. Good for the gun, and good for my shoulder( and I;m not a tiny guy with flinch issues). Cost for the RST are about 10.00 a box, my reloads are about 3.50 now that lead has come down.