Any ideas ?

[6pt-Sika]

Any ideas on the velocity and pressure of the old Winchester 12 gauge 3” 1 3/8 ounce as well as 1 5/8 ounce loads of Buckingham’s day ?

[Mills]

You wish they would put pressure on all boxes of shotgun shells. I don't think they ever have though.

[Researcher]

In the Western Cartridge Co. Super-X booklets of the 1920s and early 1930s Capt. Chas. Askins states the velocity of the 3-inch Super-X is a bit over 1000 fps over forty yards. The 1941 Winchester Ammunition Guide gives the velocity over forty yards for the 12-gauge, 3-inch, Super-Speed, 1 5/8-ounce load as 965 fps.

Another shotshells ballistics chart I have shows the muzzle velocity for the 1 3/8-ounce load as 1295 fps and the 1 5/8-once load as 1200 fps. I have no attribution for this chart.

As for pressure they would be withing SAAMI Specs.

Actually, the answer is likely zero and zero. Those pre-war non-corrosive primers have likely exceeded their useful life.

[Bill Murphy]

Craig, the first box you picture is Nash Buckingham's favorite load. This full box will probably sell for hundreds of dollars if you put it in Ward's Auction. I have never seen this particular box sell on Ward's Auction or anywhere else, but then I don't get out much.

[Researcher]

Both of Craig's boxes are the styles in use from 1933 to 1939.

[Cold Spring]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

In the Western Cartridge Co. Super-X booklets of the 1920s and early 1930s Capt. Chas. Askins states the velocity of the 3-inch Super-X is a bit over 1000 fps over forty yards. The 1941 Winchester Ammunition Guide gives the velocity over forty yards for the 12-gauge, 3-inch, Super-Speed, 1 5/8-ounce load as 965 fps.

Another shotshells ballistics chart I have shows the muzzle velocity for the 1 3/8-ounce load as 1295 fps and the 1 5/8-once load as 1200 fps. I have no attribution for this chart.

As for pressure they would be withing SAAMI Specs.

Actually, the answer is likely zero and zero. Those pre-war non-corrosive primers have likely exceeded their useful life.

Data I've seen shows the pre-War 12 ga/3-inch/1-5/8 ounce load at 965 feet AVERAGE over 40 yards, and the very same load did 1315 feet "muzzle velocity" after the War when electronic chronographs came into use. That second number is considerably higher than posted by Dave. Both as tested with number 6-shot.

[6pt-Sika]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

Data I've seen shows the pre-War 12 ga/3-inch/1-5/8 ounce load at 965 feet AVERAGE over 40 yards, and the very same load did 1315 feet "muzzle velocity" after the War when electronic chronographs came into use. That second number is considerably higher than posted by Dave. Both as tested with number 6-shot.

Maybe the 965 wasn’t at the muzzle but out a bit ?

[6pt-Sika]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

Data I've seen shows the pre-War 12 ga/3-inch/1-5/8 ounce load at 965 feet AVERAGE over 40 yards, and the very same load did 1315 feet "muzzle velocity" after the War when electronic chronographs came into use. That second number is considerably higher than posted by Dave. Both as tested with number 6-shot.

I’d be okay with 1300 at the muzzle !

[Researcher]

Maybe the 965 wasn’t at the muzzle but out a bit ?

That was the average velocity over forty yards.

[Cold Spring]

Craig, as I had written and confirmed by Dave, the 965 was the velocity average over 40 yards. Velocity average was the industry norm back in the old days; note also that an average of 965 with 6-shot would be somewhat higher with ducking 4-shot, higher still with 2's, and less with 7-1/2's.

Happy to help a gent who moved one foot into the (Foxy) dark side.