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10-04-2019, 06:36 PM | #3 | ||||||
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thanks bill for the info on the the loads...i m going to have to get me a 4 bore gun before i get to try out these loads....what i m interested in is how much powder one of these old 4 bores used in a factory loaded shell....i have a factory umc 4 bore loaded shell but the top wad does not give the loading in it...i looked in one winchester catologue it had some 4 bore boxes in it the old box i have is listed in it but know loading info was on them....any body have a 4 gauge shell box with loading info on it... charlie
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10-04-2019, 06:53 PM | #4 | ||||||
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You won't find a four gauge box with a smokeless load of a powder that is made today. You have to make up your own loads. It will be hard to blow up a four with sensible loads. It is hard to blow up an eight with loads that work in a ten plus about ten or twenty percent volume of powder. The problem is keeping the pressure up in the big bore. Just to be honest, I use my fifty years of loading twelve gauge shells, add the ten to twenty percent fast powder to make light loads in the ten, and don't progress to slower powders like Unique or Blue Dot until I want to load heavy loads in the ten or the eight. Even then, I go to the 12 gauge loading charts for my slow powder loads in the twelve gauge and add 10 or 15 percent for ten and eight gauge loads. The "big hole" makes the loads safe. Don't fall for the "boutique powder" trap. Use the cheap stuff we use for our other shells, like Red Dot, Unique, Blue Dot, 700x, you name it. Forget the powders that no one can find.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Bill Murphy For Your Post: |
10-04-2019, 09:17 PM | #5 | ||||||
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Mentioned in C. John Sullivan, Jr's books the gentlemen shooting on the bar at the Carroll's Island Ducking Club were using 11 to 12 drams of black powder and 3 1/2 ounces of shot in their big 4-gauge guns. From what I've found in old ammunition catalogs only Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and Winchester offered 4-gauge NPEs. Peters and Western didn't bother with this very limited market. From what I've found the big ammunition companies didn't provide loaded 4-gauge shells. They were either loaded by the users or local loaders.
UMC 1887 -- 4-gauge 1887 brass.png 4-gauge 1887 paper.png UMC 1901 -- 4-gauge, 1901.png |
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The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Noreen For Your Post: |
10-04-2019, 10:52 PM | #6 | ||||||
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thanks researcher...i read some where about some of the loadings people used in the days of the 4 bore but have forgotten where i read it...i hope someday to get a 4 ga if i can find one... i have a few 4 ga loaded shells i have a coupla eley knoch some made in paris france and several empty hulls of forign make....i have tom armbrust book of the 4 and 8 bore it has several loads in it on the 4 bore but i just wanted to know what and if what the factory loads were...11 drams of black powder would be a handful.....charlie
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10-05-2019, 10:53 AM | #7 | ||||||
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About 15 to 20 years ago, I forget how long ago, I blew up my 1889 Remington hammer gun with a extreme overload and bought my first Parker from a fellow who had many old SxSs. He was a railroad engineer that drove trains from Canada into Michigan and in his travels he bought many guns from Canada during their struggles with different gun laws. The whole second floor of his house was filled with guns. I got to hold a 6ga SxS and a 4ga single barrel gun. He even had a couple of shells for each gun. They were both heavy brutes. I've often wonder what kind of stories they could tell.
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Paul Harm |
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The Following User Says Thank You to Paul Harm For Your Post: |
10-05-2019, 07:53 PM | #8 | ||||||
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paul thats one shell i have never seen is a 6 gauge....i have a 2 ga and a 3 ga remington in my small collection...i almost bought a 6 ga muzzle loader a few years back... charlie
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10-06-2019, 09:43 AM | #9 | ||||||
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The Southern California Arms Collectors Association did a display at the 1987 NRA convention in Reno, Nevada. The display included "what is believed to be the only American 4-bore hammerless double barrelled shotgun, made by Charles Edward Sneider, 214 W. Pratt St., Baltimore, MD. It has 38-inch barrels and weighs 28 1/2 pounds." Their handout goes on to say "it is chambered for a brass shell that can hold 22 grams (?) of powder and six ounces of shot." I suspect that should be drams and would be the load the gun held, 11 drams and 3 ounces in each barrel? In my years of doing a display at the MACA show at Timonium, I saw two or three 4-bore singles by Sneider come in.
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10-06-2019, 03:58 PM | #10 | ||||||
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this 4 bore was much of a gunat 28 1/2 pounds i would have to hire some body to shoot it for me...i once almost got a manton 4 bore it had 40 inch barrels and weighed 24 1/2 lbs it was a hammer gun....a fellow that can handle and shoot the 4 bore well is seldom seen i could not handle one well myself even in my younger years....charlie
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