Parker Live Bird Gun??

[Bruce L. Cohen]

Hi Guys and Gals: I am a new, old member, I was a member and droped out when I sold my gun collection. Now getting back into it and picked up a really interesting Parker VHE. I have all the books and they dont answer the question. I sent the serial number to the group and they dont have anything on the gun.
So here we go. VHE, 32 inch bbls. beavertail forarm. No 2 frame double triggers and NO SAFTY. Never had one as there is engaving (factory) over where it would have been. Serial #208616 so about a 1924 gun. Am I correct and this was built as a dedicated Live Bird Gun. Please opine.

[Researcher]

Maybe! Maybe not! Could be a trap gun or just some old timer's duck gun. Many old timers didn't like a safety. Nash Buckingham had no safety on BoWhoop, and his HDE at Henry Bartholomew's estate.

[Bruce L. Cohen]

Thanks for the quick reply. As there are no records for this gun I guess I will never know. I do know or believe that less than 170 something of all VH production was ordered with a Beavertail Forend. Could not find out how many of all Parkers were ordered whithout a saftey from the factory. I know many had them removed and a plug put in but this one is definitly factory ordered. Oh well, anoher mystery unsolved in my life.
Thanks again for getting back to me with your oppinion so quickly.
bruce4guns@aol.com

[paul adams]

Forgive me for momentarily stealing your post but what features does a "live bird gun" have or is it just a "loose title"?

[Dean Romig]

Paul, it has become a 'loose title' of late and seems to be applied to any gun without a safety. A true live bird or inanimate target competition gun or "race gun" often had other defining features as well as provenance to an early competition shooter.

[Bruce L. Cohen]

All: Like the man said an overused term. But! What shoud be said is that guns with certain configurations such as long tubes (especially 32 in and over), Factory Bevertail Forearms, and especially factory configured and ordered as this one was (engraving over the area where the saftey would be) double triggers and a high stock, is more than likely a designade live bird or trap gun. While duck hunters might want a gun like this it is more than likely that it was ordered by a live bird shooter or trap shooter. They did not trust the single trigger as it doubled sometime and they did not want to worry about taking off a safty and loosing a bird because they forgot. They wanted the long barrel because it helps with swing through, the beavertail added weight up front to help with this also and to keep ones hand of a very hot barrel. The high stock helped them shoot under the bird and see it sooner. If the records existed for this gun and it was sold to a person and not a store I would bet he would be able to be found to be either a live bird shooter or a trap shooter on as most were both.

[Bill Murphy]

I have not seen a Parker order that specified flyer shooting as the purpose the gun would be used for. However, I have seen many orders that identify the buyer as a known competition shooter in the pigeon ring. Two other rare features that identify a "Pigeon Gun" are "no extension rib" and "flat rib". However, it is rare to find all mentioned features in the same gun.

[OH Osthaus]

a couple thoughts - not matured enough to be opinions

isn't 1924 a bit late for the hey day of live bird shooting?

and since it was (and is) largely a big money game to play - wouldn't someone special ordering a live bird gun likely order a higher grade than a V?


my guess is a trap gun - cheapskates that they are

[Bruce L. Cohen]

Mr. Osthaus: Well I don't actually agree with that completely. I have shoot boxed birds as late as two years ago. There is actually a very large world wide community of folks who still shoot "Fliers" and it is still legal in many states and outside the US in many Latin American and European Countries. It is done in a quite way and yes it is a big money game and most of the shooters shoot big money guns. Now in 1924 as now not everyone who shot boxed birds was a millionare. I imagine the Parker VHE i have cost in excess of $ 60 with the bevertail forend and ejectors and I imagine in 2015 dollars that is a lot of money for the average guy. Pigion shooting was common in every state back then and there were alot of clubs around still. Not saying your wrong, just saying it could have been a trapshooters gun or it could have belonged to a guy who did both but on a local or regional level.
That's the great thing about strange guns, absent the record of whom it was sold to, I will never know just guess.
As to the fancy shooting irons there is a very large shoot held in PA each year and the winner four or five years ago was shooting a Remington Pump Gun. Imagine that

[Bruce L. Cohen]

Got the rib thing now. Thanks all . You are correct mine is concave and does have the dolls head.