Loose Rib

[Bruce Day]

I dropped off Van's barrels yesterday, a set of nice undented grade 2 damascus top lever hammer 16ga 32"s and Dale Edmonds asked that I post the following photo to show a situation, which may be of help to restorers.

These are L C Smith barrels and they rang fine but you can see the bottom rib is very loose, so this will need a re rib laying job. The gun is a bottom grade Smith and the purchaser will end up spending much more than anticipated.

I believe the point he was making is to check the ribs for looseness even if the barrels ring true.

[Bill Murphy]

I understand that Dale Edmunds is not equipped to address such loose ribs. Am I correct or am I mistaken? When he gets a gun in his shop that needs the ribs relaid, what does he do?

[Harry Collins]

I have seen several Smith's with loose bottom ribs! Was it that common of a problem wih them?

Harry

[John Liles]

Hello Harry,
As a collector of LC Smith shotguns, I can state with a fair amount of certainty that loose bottom ribs are not a problem frequently encountered by LC Smith owners. Given the pitting visible beneath the bold bluing visible on the lower barrel in the pictured example, I'd guess that the barrels were improperly cold, or hot, re-blued blued at some point in their history, and the chemicals slowly ate the lead solder used to join the barrels and affix the ribs. Smart money says that the top rib is not long to follow. I have a set of 3E barrels in my shop right now that originally appeared to have just a small section of bottom rib in need of re-solder. In prepping the area for repair, the entire bottom rib peeled right off, and with just a little coaxing, the top rib followed suit. Almost zero evidence of any lead solder remained on either the barrels or the ribs. Great testimony that slow rust bluing is the way to go on the old gals. I have repaired two LC Smiths where the fore-end lug has come loose and "Train Wrecked" a portion of the adjacent bottom rib, but I've also repaired one 20 ga Parker in need of the same repair, but caught before the trainwreck, and have another Parker 20 ga in the waiting room at the present time with the very same symptoms. In my experience, no vintage shotgun is immune to an improper re-blue, and loose bottom ribs or fore-end lugs are just as prevalent in Elsie as Parkers.
Hope my experiences help to answer your question.
John

[Bruce Day]

I know nothing about Smith barrels but the Smiths pictured are damascus barrels and showed no evidence of having been blued, as bluing is done on fluid steel barrels. They are in for damascus re-browning. Certainly fluid steel doubles must be cold blued.....its not really cold, just not hot enough for the temperatures to melt barrel solder.

I know a little bit about Parkers and if I saw that on a gun I owned I would have the ribs removed and any rust between the barrels cleaned out and stopped. But, I am aware that frequently guns are refreshed for sale and loose ribs just soldered down or glued without removal and cleaning. With that, I am close to the end of my knowledge.

[Old and Reliable]

Interesting post Bruce- I have four 12 gauge Smiths- three are pre-1913, one is a FW made in 1940 with the optional solid higher rib-and one of the pre-1913's is a 2E that was re-fitted in 1927 at Fulton with a set of Nitro Steel ejector barrels 32" 3" Full & Full with original raised ventilated rib- I shoot these guns a lot, no rib problems that I am aware of, and I shoot, handle and clean the barrels on a regular basis-- I would think that re-setting ribs on any side-by might be a real task for the experts, and the business about the hot salts and tank re-blue might be the culprit on Proof Steel barrels- I did have both an early Syracuse Smith OE 12 with Stub Twist barrels and also a Uncle Dan LeFever G Grade 12 (just under the 25xxx sn range) also with Damascus barrels-that had been "refinished" I guess- both guns were $500 range "shooters" for BP events- but I sold them and used the funds for another 12-with WPS barrels--

Each to their own, but if the shotgun fits me, has good balance and refined trigger pulls- "wear with care" or loss of blueing on the barrels (around splinter foregrip areas) is NOT a problem for me- Plus- when you send a double out for refinishing or restoration, all that time it is NOT in your hands been shot and being "gotten used to"-just my opinion is all!!

[John Liles]

Bruce, must be time for a new screen on my end, because there are no visible Damascus swirls that I can see! That would be the advantage of your having seen them in person. In any event, there is no alternative to completely re-laying the ribs at this point, as you have pointed out. For that matter, re-laying the ribs would be appropriate on any gun where corrosion is the underlying cause of rib separation. In many instances, bottom rib separation is the result of impact from a loose fore-end lug, or other non-corrosion related issue, and in those cases repair with-out completely relaying the rib is a much more economical option. When done properly, barrel finish is not compromised, or is hidden under the fore-end, and I've personally sent over a thousand rounds down a set that I repaired without further issue.
John

[Bill Murphy]

Is Dale Edmunds equipped to relay ribs. If not, how does he address this problem?

[Bruce Day]

No.
Sends them out.

[Ed Blake]

From what I understand Giacomo's does a lot of contract re-soldering work for other 'smiths. I have a barrel set coming back this week (hopefully).