T.L. Golcher

[Bruce A Lyons]

Anyone have any info on this person? Bidding online on one of his shotguns. Apparently out of Philadelphia. Looks very English, but has no proof marks. Seems to be best quality. Hammer double with both 10 and 12 barrels. Thanks in advance. GB 1064368261

[Researcher]

That gun was in the Dr. Bill McPhail family collection back in 2011. Bill sent me a DVD of pictures of the guns in his collection of our custom makers from the "classic" period, Civil War to 1900.

There is a plainer, but similar looking, 8-gauge Golcher in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Twelve, Issue 2, pages 135 & 6, said to be made by H.A. Linder.

There were a number of Golcher gunmakers in the Philadelphia area and later one went to St Paul, MN.

[Bruce A Lyons]

Is that the same Linder as in Pruissian/Charles Daley? Wonder why no proofs on the barrels?

[Bill Murphy]

T.L. Golcher mostly sold guns made by Lindner in Germany or Prussia. They are very similar to guns made by Lindner and marketed by Charles Daly. My T.L. Golcher marked guns are all of a quality less than a Daly Diamond Grade but higher grade than Daly base grade guns. If you will provide pictures, we can explain the markings. Most Golcher guns seem to be mixed in with Lindner and Daly serial numbers. Guns shipped for the US market did not require proof marks.

[Drew Hause]

Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire required proof starting in 1891. Thereafter, whether for domestic sale or export, proof, and proof marks were mandatory. I don't know the rules for unfinished actions for export.

Lindner Daly Model 125 manufactured c. 1900



Winter 2005 DGJ "Ghost or Gunmaker - The Mystery of H.A. Lindner - Part II"
Imprints such as Prussia, Thuringia and Saxony on the water tables and barrel flats on many guns indicate that they were destined for the United States as their final destination. The U.S. Trade Laws prior to 1891 had no requirement that a country of origin be marked on product or merchandise. The Law was amended in 1891 to say that the name of the country of origin be imprinted. We therefore see Thuringia, Italy, Nippon and the like on guns of the period and up to 1921. This Trade Law was again amended in 1921 to read that the imprint must state , "Made in Country of Origin". We see, then, Made in England, Made in Italy, etc.

[Bill Murphy]

Drew, how do explain the 1120 number on the water table and the 4xx number on the trigger guard on an original looking gun? Also, no crossed pistols on an obviously Linder made gun? When is the estimated date of manufacture of this gun? The seller requires an FFL to send it. ATF says that they don't want antique guns in their licensee's files. Any comment?

[Drew Hause]

The DOM is the issue, and I don't know if the absence of proof marks are viewed by ATF as adequate evidence for pre-1892 production (satisfying the pre-1898 rule.)

[Bruce A Lyons]

Thanks all. Can't post pictures, need to look at GB 1064368261. I don't think the seller requires an FFL, as stated in the beginning of the ad. I am confused by the mis-matched numbers and lack of any proof marks. The engraving and wood are simply splendid and the extra barrels are a big plus. Not too many 10/12 combo's around like that.

[Drew Hause]

Help from Raimey regarding dating Lindner guns and proof marks
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums...&Number=641923

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...&Number=196423

[Bill Murphy]

The seller says no FFL required, then says an FFL is required for all sales. I'll go with the No FFL Required.