2 1/2 in shells

[MIKE FISHER]

Greetings. A friend who is quite knowledgeable in side-by-sides, insists that older Parkers were chambered for 2 1/2 inch cartridges. Johnson states the opposite on pg. 74, yet Major Sir Gerald Burrard's The Modern Shotgun, volume 2, pg 91, describes 2 5/8 as the American standard until 1947 when 2 3/4 was adopted. Neither source seems to support my friend's claim of 2 1/2 in; does anyone have any additional light to shed on this relative to Parkers?
Thanks.

[Bruce Day]

Maybe your "knowledgeable" friend should read The Parker Story, which contains tables showing Parker chamber dimensions.

TPS, p. 514

[B. Dudley]

Is there even a 2.5" 12g. shell? Aren't they all considered 2-5/8"?

[Bruce Day]

When the SAAMI specification started in the mid-1920's, the 12ga expanded hull length was standardized at 2 5/8 to 2 3/4" for shells marked 2 3/4". Before the SAAMI ( Small Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute) standards, the various cartridge manufacturers had varying lengths. Dave Noreen has old ammunition catalogs and he could be specific.

That's why today, you can look at many expanded hulls and they are less than 2 3/4". Win AA's are typically 2 5/8". Not that it really matters.

[Blind Dog]

I have a 1936 Remington made VHE 12ga skeet gun that has 2&1/2" chambers.

[Bill Murphy]

Mike, tell your friend that "older Parkers" were chambered from about 2 3/8" to 4", depending on how they were ordered and how Parker was boring them at the time. Parker Brothers normally bored chambers 1/8" shorter than the shells the guns were designed to shoot. This is proved as fact by documents such as Bruce posted and other factory drawings from Parker Brothers. Burrard's date for the switch to 2 3/4" shells as standard in the US is way late.

[Paul Harm]

Brian, there are 2" shells - The Brits had 2" 12ga guns. Also 2 1/2" 12ga. Paul

[Double Play]

Mike,
Bill is correct, a customer could have requested almost and chamber length he wanted based on the shells available at the time. My 1906 16 gage Parker was ordered with 2 7/8" chambers which I doubt would have been considered the norm at that time.

[Researcher]

Some time back Drew Hause posted some old articles about A.W. duBray making the rounds in the south and doing quite a bit of hunting using a 16-gauge Parker Bros. double and 2 7/8 inch shells.

Long shotgun shells have been around just about as long as cartridge shotguns have been around. In the early days there were a plethora of shell lengths. In my 1903 UMC catalogue there were 12-gauge paper shells 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch. The 16-gauge was available 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The 20-gauge was offered in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The “standard” shell, 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge, 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge and 2 ½ inch 20-gauge carried slightly milder loads than the max offered in the 2 ¾ inch shells, but the 2 7/8, 3-inch and longer shells just got more wadding.

The 20-gauge Super-Fox came out in the early- to mid-1920s. Most were chambered for 2 ½ or 2 ¾ inch shells. The only one of the ammunition companies I’ve found to offer long shells with their new progressive burning powder high velocity loads was Peters, and just like the old bulk or dense smokeless powder shells, the 2 7/8 and 3-inch Peters High Velocity shells didn’t carry a heavier payload, just more wadding –



From the 1927 Peters catalogue –

[charlie cleveland]

as any one looked at the chart ofthat bruce posted the small end of the chart which should be the muzzle end is confusing to me...first the 8 ga. big end marked .928 the little end is marked .919 thats only .09 hundreds differance in the big end to little end... and the 10 ga and 12 ga are in similar mode...is it just that im confuzed or is there an bad error here...charlie