[QUOTE=Jerry Harlow;302903]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Lester
I tried that website to see how they came up with their calculations which I believe are way too high, but it is blocked telling me it is a dangerous website (?).
As I stated before, if their calculations are correct, I should notice quite a bit of difference between 1 ounce loads going 1150 fps (2 3/4 dram equivalent), 1200 fps (3 dram equivalent), and 1250 fps (3 1/4 dram equivalent), but I have never felt a 22% increase in recoil between the first and the third load, which if the chart is correct would apply.
Here is what Tom Roster has to say about lead and tungsten for velocities and then what he clearly states for loads with shot that is less dense than lead, for which he supports higher velocities:
"...the science-based reality that with lead and nontoxic tungsten-composite pellet hunting loads possessing lead shot equivalent pellet densities, all you need for effective (spelled: lethal) velocity is something near 1250 fps ± 50 fps. For steel loads, all that is needed is something near 1350 fps ± 50 fps."
Bismuth as we know is not lead equivalent (but denser than steel); therefore Tom Roster is recommending between 1300 and 1400 fps for stuff less than lead. I believe that is why Hevi-shot has loaded their "Hevi Bismuth" shells that are "FOR MODERN AND CLASSIC GUNS" at 1400 fps. I feel certain that they have done more testing than any of us could ever imagine before releasing their product and advertising that they were "safe" for classic guns. They apparently know something about downrange velocities as well.
I do know for sure that modern steel loads at these extremely high velocities are like night and day compared to the initial steel loads first brought onto the market that were being pushed at normal velocities of 1200 fps. I forbade those goose hunting with me to use the early loads. They too have seen the need for higher downrange velocities. To each his own and I won't argue with whatever someone else is successful with but I always look for an edge for not every shot I make is perfect and I hate wounded game birds.
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If you are happy shooting a 1 1/4 ounce load at 1400 fps out of a 7 3/4 lb classic double have fun. I have found there is no need to punish the gun and and my shoulder with something that heavy. Personally I don't think it's good advice especially when you don't know the condition of the gun they will be used in. There are plenty of people on this forum successfully taking ducks and geese with bismuth loadings in 10 and 12 gauge guns with a velocity between 1150 and 1250. Again if you want greater killing power at longer range increase the mass of the pellet. Try shot size 3.5 from Roto Metals on ducks. It looks to be about the same number of pellets per ounce , 137 as the original Bismuth Cartridge Company #4 (which was oversized, almost a #3, late in production they downsized the #4 pellet). The "old" 4's work great on ducks and close geese at 1150 to 1250 fps and I'll bet those 3.5's will too. I am just about out of bismuth #1 and I think I am going to try Roto Metals #0 next for geese.