[Steve Hodges]

Quote--"I'm easing into "stern but fair treatment" off the shocks, to do it for me and not to avoid pain, to be a real dog as you say."

Mr. Brown, if you choose to train your dog off the E Collar that is entirely your business, but please do no state that dogs that work with assistance of the E Collar are not "real dogs, as you say". My dogs are real dogs in every sense of the word and I use an E Collar judiciously to re-enforce my voice and whistle commands. I can control them from great distances and can stop them from crossing a busy highway in an instant, a great safety measure, or call them off a porcupine before they get seriously hurt, which I have done before. Oh, and your emphatic point that they are not doing it for me is pure malarkey in my book. Funny how when I break out the E Collars both dogs go berserk, not because they don't want them on but just the opposite, they DO want them on because they associate them with a pleasurable time hunting with ME in the field. Go ahead and spit all you want in your poor pooches mouth, I choose to skip that rather gross training method and feel a bit sorry for the dog. JMHO.