3 inch 16 bore.
 

Hello from England .Belong to a forum called pigeon watch.Blue dots quite hard to get hold of over here .I had a spare 1lbs a chap just called for it and we got talking about re loading and guns .He was a wild fowler. He has 8 10 and some small bore in fact he has a lot of guns.Just has he was leaving he told me he has a Greener 3inch 16 bore.They must be like hens teeth never heard of one before.I must find more about it. Michael.

We have a slight powder shortage but not too bad. I don't think any 3" 16ga were produced over here, but could be wrong, just never heard of one.

Just like extra length shells were offered in the other gauges, longer 16-gauge cases were offered from the get go, at least well into the 1930s. The "standard" 16-gauge shell here in North America was 2 9/16 inch, but 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch cases were offered. Long 16-gauge shells don't seem to have been as popular as those in 12- and 20-gauges. Back in the day, our North American ammunition companies offered slightly hotter loads in the 2 3/4 inch and longer 12- and 20-gauge shells then in the "standard" 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge and 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge, but in the 16-gauge the hottest loads offered could be had in the 2 9/16 inch shell. The longer shells got one more/better wadding, not a heavier load. In searching the A.H. Fox Gun Co. records I've found nine graded 16-gauge guns ordered for 3-inch shells and a grand total of one ordered for 2 7/8 inch shells. Here is a page from the 1927 Peters catalogue that shows the extra length shells offered in each gauge --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...yloads1927.jpg

The only 3-inch 16-gauge shell I've ever seen are these Winchester LEADER shells --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pse202d0d6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps273ca479.jpg

Back in the day there was a series of articles about Capt. DuBray making a swing through the South using a Parker Bros. 16-gauge with 2 7/8 inch shells. (Dr. Drew help!!)

My canned 16-gauge history lesson --

16-Gauge History lesson --

From the late 1890s until after WW-I, the heaviest 16-gauge loads our North American ammunition companies offered were 2 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 22 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing 1 ounce of shot. Those loads could be had in the "standard" 2 9/16 inch case or any of the longer 2 3/4, 2 7/8 or 3-inch cases. So, at least in factory loaded cartridges, the longer 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch 16-gauge shells only benefit was more/better wadding.

In late 1922 or early 1923, Western Cartridge Co. added the 16-gauge to their progressive burning powder loads called Super-X, but unlike the 1 1/4 ounce 12-gauge and 1 ounce 20-gauge Super-X loads which were put up in Western's 2 3/4 inch FIELD shells, the 1 1/8 ounce 16-gauge Super-X load was put up in their 2 9/16 inch FIELD shell. When the Lubaloy shot Super-X loads were introduced in July 1929, they were put up in Western's high brass RECORD shell, but the 16-gauge still in a 2 9/16 inch length case.

The 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge shell really began to get some traction when Remington Arms Co., Inc. introduced their Model 11 and "Sportsman" autoloaders in 16-gauge in 1931, chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells. While Remington's regular Nitro Express 16-gauge progressive burning powder load was put up in a 2 9/16 inch hull with a load of 3 drams equiv. pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot, for their new 16-gauge autoloaders they introduced the slightly faster Auto-Express with a 3 1/4 drams equiv. charge pushing 1 1/8 ounce of shot --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psa3fde229.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps9c6b9b18.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psaf0b721e.jpg

I'm thin on Winchester ammo catalogues, but for sure by 1934, they were offering a similar 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge load.

The 2 3/4 inch Magnum shells with 1 1/2 ounce in 12-gauge, 1 1/4 ounce in 16-gauge and 1 1/8 ounce in 20-gauge first appear in the December 15, 1954, Western Cartridge Co. catalogues.

Western Cartridge Co. added a 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge to their Super-X offerings for 1938. From 1938 through 1942 they called this 16-gauge 2 3/4 inch Super-X shell "Magnum", even though it was still a 1 1/8 ounce payload. By Western Cartridge Co.'s March 7, 1946, catalogue the term "Magnum" was gone from this 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell. In Western's January 2, 1947, catalogue, the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell was gone from both the chilled shot and the Lubaloy offerings, and their only 2 9/16 inch shells being offered were Xpert. This may have been an oversight, as the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X shell with chilled shot is back in Western Cartridge Co.'s April 8, 1948, catalogue and price list, and the 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge Super-X loads remained until their last appearance on Western Cartridge Co.'s January 2, 1962, catalogue and price lists, where it is "available until stocks depleted." By Western Cartridge Co.’s January 2, 1963, catalogue and price lists the new Mark 5 was introduced and all the 16-gauge Super-X offerings are 2 3/4 inch. By the January 2, 1964, Western Cartridge Co. catalogue and price list the 16-gauge 2 9/16 inch Xpert shell is gone as well.

really like the history lessons...charlie

Yea, Dave has all the cool stuff. I always enjoy reading your post - thanks.

3" 16 gauge
 

Thank you Dave for such interesting and thorough information.

Jim King, a gun dealer in southern California, had a 16 gauge Winchester Model 21 marked 3" on the exterior of the gun about five years ago. He stated openly in his sales ad that he had never heard of such a thing. That was my first alert to the fact that there was a 3" 16 gauge out there in our historical past.

Another lesson from the Parker web site.When I first went to South Dakota pheasant hunting in 79 one of the older gentleman in the group from my home town shot a model 12 16 that was not a 2 3/4 inch gun. He worked on it with a file on so that it would shoot most of the time if you used a certain brand of low brass shell. He later willed this gun to my best friend and hunting buddy.I have a GH 16 chambered for 2 9/16 and I love shooting RST's in it. Great bird load.

I had first heard of 3" 16 ga shells when I read Charles Askins Sr.'s book "Modern Shotguns and Loads" that was originally printed in 1929. In the chapter (gauges and their use) he discusses each gauge and showed a picture of the different lengths of shells. I remember seeing a 3" shell in the 16 ga picture.

Jack Kuzepski