Very hard to believe. Could it be true?
 

This is off topic for parkers, but check out the fox site. They have a link to julias auction that is "supposed to include the original bo-whoop :shock: Nash Buckingham's gun for sale".
This is hard for me to believe, but anything is possible.
I am interested to hear what more knowledgeable people on this and other forums have to say.
If it is true, IMHO this is a major piece of americana and brings up many unanswered issues and will create quit a stir.

I first learned of this about two weeks ago but at that time it was simply rumor.

However, nearly two years ago I heard through the 'grapevine' that the original "Bo-Whoop" had turned up in the possession of an 'undisclosed' party.

Let's see if Jack Puglisi gets into the action . . . :corn:

This will be fun to watch!

I have talked to couple members of the Fox board and they are pretty convinced the gun is legit. As Forrest said"This should be fun!"

Kinda like the Fox version of the "Czars Gun"

I dunno Dave - remember, 'condition is everything'. Maybe we should compare this to Spiller's Parker as far as what it is and the condition it may be in. We were surprised to see that one go for $10,500...

Both men were highly esteemed sportsmen and authors of a great many books (Derrydales as well as others) and articles in sporting publications. Both men were considered to be the "last word" in their chosen sporting field - Buckingham on Southern waterfowl, quail etc - Spiller on the ruffed grouse, woodcock, snipe etc.

(Take what I've said here with 'a grain of salt' as it is only written 'tongue in cheek'.)

Should be a very interesting auction :cool:

I agree with ya to a point.But the fact that the Czars gun was restocked didn,t seem to affect value in my mind.And "Bo-Whoop" seems to be in pretty nice shape. If a bidder just has to have it as in the case of the "Czars gun" this gun could go through the roof.But I really don,t think it will top the Parker. JHMO....:corn:

If it's the "REAL BO-WHOOP" SN 31088 that I saw two years ago I predict that it will leave the "Czar's" Parker in the dust. To be sure it's got to be: HE Grade, 12 gauge, 32" barrels choked full & full, Stock 14 1/4" pull, 1 1/2 " DAC, 2: DAH, Weight 9 lb. 9 oz., straight slender grip, half oval, Hy Gain recoil pad, XE Grade style stock & fore arm, XE engraving, full round comb, pitch-2", cast off 1/2", chambered for 3" shell for #4 chilled shot, largest ivory front sight, small ivory rear sight 10" from the breech. Shipped from Fox Philadelphia, PA factory May 27, 1927. Original onsignee listed to be Nash Buckingham. (All this taken from a copy of John Callahan's letter to the present owner)

Best Regards, George

George
I also saw the gun about two years go at the same place you did. There did not seem to be any question as to originality.This should be interesting to watch in todays enviroment.
David

If it's the "REAL BO-WHOOP" SN31088 that I saw two years ago I predict that it will leave the "Czar's Parker" in the dust. To be sure it's got to be: HE Grade, 12 gauge, 32" barrels choked full & full, Stock 14 1/4" pull, 1 1/2" DAC, 2" DAH, Weight 9 lb. 9 oz., straigh slender grip stock, half oval, Hy Gain recoil pad, XE style stock & fore arm, XE engraving, full round comb, pitch-2", cast off 1/2", chambered for 3" shells for #4 chilled shot, largest ivory front sight, small ivory rear sight 10" from the breech, Shipped from Fox Philadelphia, PA factory May 27, 1927. Original consignee listed to be Nash Buckingham. (All of ths taken from a copy of John Callahan's letter dated April 4, 2006 to the present owner whose name was deleted) When I saw the gun it was being restocked to duplicate the original which had been broken and repaired and was present. I wonder if the original stock will be included in the sale?

Best Regards, George

...

It's been in the same place as the Czar's gun and the third Invincible were - squirreled safely away from prying eyes and fumbling hands.

David: We both know that the smith / stockmaker that worked on Bo-Whoop is as straight as an arrow. He had Mr. Callahan's letter with the owner's name removed. South Georgia sounds about right.

Dean: The story that I got says that after Nash and his frien came up out of the swamp a game warden was checking their bag and their guns. He laid Bo-Whoop on the fender and Nash and his friend forgot about it and drove off, probably running over the gun in the process. When they arrived back at their cabin, some miles away, they realized that they had left the gun and hurried back to search but to no avail. The state police and even the National Guard was summoned and a generous reward offered but no Bo-Whoop.
I was told that it has been in the present owner's family possession for many years and has been hunted with regularly. I don't believe that the finder knew who the gun belonged to and was not disclosed until the letter was obtained from Mr. Callahan.

Just My Humble Opinion.........George

Kevin, do you mean to say it has been in the posession of the old widow on Long Island?

If it's the real deal and the right folks get involved I think there's a good chance of a record selling price for an American shotgun in the offing.

As far as the Spiller gun goes, it only meant something to grouse hunters who are a pretty small fraternity. This is the gun of the most famous American waterfowler that ever lived or will ever live. It's been written about, researched, slavered and drooled about for over 50 years. The Spiller gun was just a well worn Parker that belonged to a fairly well known writer, this is Bo-Whoop we're talking about.....

I'm interested to see what provenance the auction house produces. Needless to say, I ain't player, but it will be a fun tale to follow.


Destry

...

One thing to consider as far as media hype-you and I know who Nash Buckingham was, but today's general public (and even most of today hunting public) don't. Everyone knew of the Czar of Russia. The Czar Parker was also a very showy, photo friendly gun-this one somewhat less so by the very nature of its make and creed:). Are their any dealers who identify themselves maninly as Fox Dealers the way Puglisi does himself with Parkers? I'd think they would buy it as an investment & adverstising that they are the premier dealer of Foxes.

Jack Puglisi changed the whole "key shotgun" market when he paid a price for the Czar's Gun based on his rolodex rather than on the general shotgun market or based on what the gun was worth to him as a collector. This will be the criteria on which the price of Bo Whoop will be based. That eliminates the average wealthy collector from the bidding. At least we'll get a good look at the old girl. I had a chance to own the "Award Gun" but turned it down based on what I thought was not that important a piece of waterfowling history.

Bro' Murphy is, once again, absolutely correct...

What does Mr. Buckingham famley say about this? If the gun was lost and everyone at the time was looking for it I think the gun is as good as stolen. For years everyone has looked for the gun and the guy that had new what he had. I agree with Mr. Roman They need to give the gun back.

I think Bill Jaqua beat Mr. Puglisi by about 15 years when he bought the "Little Persuader" 28 Ga Parker, paying something like $100K. People thought he was crazy, until the transaction ended up in the center column of the WSJ,validating high quality guns as an investment alternative. He resold the gun within a month, if I'm not mistaken

Please don,t take this as a knock of Fox guns.They are great guns and if I wasn,t so deep with Parkers the Fox would be my gun of choice. Bo-Whoop is a Fox gun" albiet a very famous one" My logic here is that Fox guns do not historically bring the $ Parkers do. Do you guys think that in this case provenance will grossly outweigh the value of this gun if it was a Fox owned by "Joe Blow"?

IMHO:
I think the gun will go for figures close to if not higher than the Czars gun, despite the economy.
Provenance is the key as well as all of the hype surronding this gun regarding its disapperance.

By the way doesnt the gun have made for Nash Buckingham engraved on it.

The legend on the barrels is hand stamped with individual letters --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...am/3108802.jpg

She is a well worn old fowling piece, but she was used by Nash to 21 or 22 years. The Czar never saw his alledged Parker Bros. double, and likely had no hint of its existance.

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;8551]Or has it lain hidden in obscurity all this time because whoever picked it up on the roadside knew who it belonged to and knew himself to be a dishonest coward to have kept Bo-Whoop... ?QUOTE]

Thanks Researcher, I rest my case.

Its a damn shame. I can only imagine how Mr. Buckingham must have felt when he lost Bo Whoop. That gun must have felt like an extension and piece of him. I am sure that was a terribel feeling that I hope none of us here ever have to feel. It really makes me sad to think about how many years and hunts that gun missed with the person it was made for.

If I did it correctly, the photo of Nash Buckingham's Bo Whoop that's posted on the Julia Auctions website should appear in this post ... I hope Jim Julia Doesn't mind my posting the photo here.

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOona Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

Parker values vs. AH Fox- in my "neck of the woods"
 

My first question to the Fox/TNB/Bo-Whoop cognoscenti here would be: Does this Fox HE made for TNB in 1927 have the "No Guaranteed" stamping on the barrel flats, as apparently some of the HE Fox guns did- meaning "Pattern" not the integrity of the barrel steel and construction.??

I have always held the late Nash Buckingham to be the "Top Shelf" of genteel Sportsmen no longer with us- and that list includes Paul Curtis, Hal Sheldon, William H. Foster, Ray P. Holland, Corey Ford and Gene Hill- and you will note they were all esteemed writers as well. I am fortunate to have many of their books in original editions, treasures I read and re-read oft times.

Part of the reason for my high regard for Nash was his loyalty to his friends, and his gracious Southern manners and respect for all ladies, not just his beloved wife Irma Witt Jones Buckingham. My late GrandFather taught me that you can judge the character of a man by how he treats his wife, his children and his bird dogs- Amen to that.

I recently bought (privately) a Fox 20 Sterlingworth- a Philadelphia mfg. gun with 26" open bored barrels, double triggers and extractors, unaltered, original black buttplate, about 85% blue and wood finish, 60% color casehardening- mechanically perfect 6 lbs. a great upland gun for shooting over a solid pointing dog indeed. I don't normally disclose what I have paid for a gun, anymore than I show my hole cards in poker to the man who folded his hand and surrendered the pot to me- But because the Fox/Parker value question was raised, the same party had a Meriden mfg. Parker VH 20 bore, size 0 frame, 28" Vulcan Steel barrels, DT., extractors for sale :(it has been sold now) in about the same very good condition as the Fox- and he was asking $3000 for the Parker--

As to whether the "Bo-Whoop" gun was "stolen" or "kept without looking for the proper owner"- and with his name clearly stamped on the barrel breech area, the gun was his property, and every effort should be made to return it to his heirs. The other guns he owned and sold while he was living, including the M21 "Award gun" and the second Becker 12 Magnum, sold to Dr. Andrews, that is indeed another situation, IMO.

His grandchildren should benefit from the sale of this historic shotgun, Nash stood for honor and decency and sportsmanship, this is the only right thing to do.

Why in Heaven's name did the "game agent" need to check a double gun for a three shot plug and would he think a gentleman of Nash's prestige would NOT have a valid hunting license and waterfowling stamp?

I recall two "Fox" experiences from past days- I had owned a altered 12 HE- 32" Full and extra Full- loved to use it for barn Pigeons when they return to silo, they usually have some altitude, but that Fox "nailed 'em"--it was so well fitted that it would not close completely on my reloads AA red hulls, only on factory new ones-I have since replaced it with a LC Smith 2E with 32" ventilated rib barrels- 2.5 lbs. lighter

My late GrandFather, who hunted with both 12 Parkers and a hammer 12 bore Purdey, had a close friend who owned a DE 12 Fox-we were out for pheasants one Saturday in early November, my Grandfather had picked up some Rem. 12 paper No. 6's at Howell & Clement Friday evening- Mr. Bontrager's Fox would NOT close with those new Remingtons- fortunately, he had some Ranger shells and those worked- My GrandFather later "miked" the brass heads and the unfired Remington shells were 0.0015" larger in dia. than the Ranger shells that worked in his friend's high grade Fox-!!

Hand stamped or roll stamping-
 

[QUOTE=Dave Noreen;8618]The legend on the barrels is hand stamped with individual letters --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...am/3108802.jpg

She is a well worn old fowling piece, but she was used by Nash to 21 or 22 years. The Czar never saw his alledged Parker Bros. double, and likely had no hint of its existance.[\

I wonder if those stamped letters were really done by the hands of the late B. Becker- or a 'counterfeit'-I have a lady friend who is a forensic handwriting expert, I am going to show her a printed copy of this.

Even to my inexperienced eyes, the left barrel characters and alignment vary from those evidenced on the right barrel. Also, this special Fox for TNB was made in 1927- when Burt Becker might have been at his "prime"- GBE reported that he made exehibition grade guns for Parker and Remington. he might have resorted to this rather "sloppy' and mis-aligned hand stamping under a recoil pad or inside the forearm- but to mark up a very high grade and engraved Fox with this type of "stamping"? raises a question to my layman's eyes-

Also, GBE mentioned in "Mr. Buck's guns" that the first Becker had a distinctive top lever configuration- Granted, the late GBE wasn't the AH Fox-ist that a Michael McIntosh might seem to be, BUT- GBE did start his bird hunting career with a 12 Sterlingworth, prior to his being bequeathed a 12 bore Purdey-

Also, when did Fox start the 'Barrels Not Guaranteed' stamp on the barrel flats- a "marketing error?" that may have mis-lead potential Fox buyers into thinking their Chromox steel tubes might fail under shooting conditions?? I believe what Fox may have meant to say was "Pattern percentages NOT Guaranteed"-- anyway, I'm sure not a player at this table either, stakes will be way too high for me- IF this gun is indeed the first "Bo-Whoop"--

First, I hope both the Buckingham heirs, TNB's insurance company (whomever they were) seller, Julias and buyer end up happy. Where are the routine roll stamp markings? Even if the current markings were added (by or for NB) later the original barrel stampings or traces of them would exist. All other known Philadelphia Foxes that Becker worked on are marked with Fox barrel markings and nother other than a few stamp markings know to be used by Becker. Other well known Becker stocking touches are absent as well on this re-stocked gun. Most of the opinions on this gun I have read are by people who have never even seen a Becker made gun in the hand let alone owned one. It would be like a DHE Parker leaving Meriden in 1928 stamped "Made for Nash Buckingham by James Geary, Meriden, CT". This was a Fox factory ordered and shipped gun that Becker (who was merely a contractor there) may have had a hand in making. Unlike Bo Whoop II it was not a post 1932 "Becker" gun made and marked by him using a factory gun I hope this gun is Bo Whoop and I hope someone CAN prove this is Bo Whoop but right now the provenance of this gun is suspect but it is a factory HE/XE with out doubt. Many historical and physical contradictions exist, however When Dave is convinced, I'll be more convinced. If Tom Kidd says it is even better. Right now this is a Fox XE/HE that is thought to be Bo Whoop. As for Parkers being worth more than Foxes, TR's 1909 safari F grade changed hands privately for $450,000 almost 10 years ago. One of the most famous US presidents on the most famous safari ever taken and a gift gun that made the trip with absolutely impeccable provenance.
-Written from the shores of Beaver Dam Lake, Tunica, MS 12-09-09

can someone please tell me what load BoWoop was made for
I beleive it was winchester super x #4's does anybody know the speed and oz.
thanks

Hope the weather is "ducky" at Beaver Dam--
 

Very interesting indeed. I had read that the F grade 12 Fox presented to Teddy Roosevelt was ordered w/o ejectors, as that was his preference. I also read that he sent a check in payment, and it was returned uncashed by the Fox sales manager-

This raises another ?- Did Nash order and pay for his first "Bo-Whoop", or was it a gift to a famous sportsman from the Fox Gun Co.?? The second Becker Super Fox was ordered by some of Nash's friends in an effort to replace the first gun-

I went to GBE's book "The Best of Nash Buckingham" (as if there could be anything second rate about this Gentleman-Sportsman from a by-gone era)- page 151- Chapter entitled Mr. Buck's Guns--quote: Nash's favorite 3 inch load for the gun (Bo-Whoop) was "an ounce and three eights of 4's coppered, ahead of four drams of powder"--

I have shot a similar load, albiet in a plastic hull and with plastic wadding- before steel and non-toxic became the law of the land, I used the Federal Premium copper plated lead shot loads in most all of my 12 gauge guns- both 2 & 3/4" and 3" length-for my three primary game birds hunted: Ring-necked pheasants, Green-head Mallards and Canada geese- Devastating indeed.

I had at one time a HE 12- it had been 'restocked" apparently by a group of ruptured Chinese gunsmiths out on a hot wine drunk- it weighed almost 11 lbs. with 32" barrels, had the 3" chamber mark and the "Not Guaranteed" stamping- but I could not swear that Mr. Becker was involved in its manufacture. The weight came from the added spacer and pad with a lead plug in the butt- (similar to my 3" Mag M12) and a "beavertail forearm" that was, no doubt, copied from a deceased beaver- UGLY- but the price was right, the splinter forearm was included and a leather case- I couldn't handle such a heavy gun today--but mechanically it was a gem- solid lock up, ejectors perfectly timed, sweet triggers and I dropped a sinful load of Canadas with it--never shot it with steel loads!

Also, I went to foto section of the book between pages 20 and 23- I believe the dog "Chubby" pictured with Nash is a Cocker Spaniel, albiet a good sized one. In years past we had Cockers for house dogs, I doubt there is a more of a "One_Man" breed than a Cocker- "Murphy" followed me around like I had steak bones in my pockets- he was an English Cocker, black and white, and looked like the "smaller brother" to our neighbor's black and white Springer "Clint"!!

I know this is about the Bo-Whoopie question, but another reason I revere both Nash Buckingham and Gene Hill was their love and kind treatment towards dogs. In the GBE "Letters To John Bailey" is detailed a gun brokered deal that "went South" against Nash, and he wrote the brokeree "Next time, you get yourself another boy" Said a lot to me about his integrity!!

If this gun truely turns out to be Bo Whoop, is this the last big mysterious american side by side? The third invicible was found, now the czar gun, and now possibly bo whoop. Are all of the legendary american side by sides now acounted for?

John - Pardon the pun, but 'not by a long shot" have the legendary American SXS's been accounted for. Sure, maybe those owned by famous notables are thinning down but there are guns out there that will become legendary in and of themselves. Just today I was discussing with a couple of PGCA Members the (heretofore) rumored pair of looong barreled high-grade Parker .410s that went to the West Coast immediately before we became involved in WWII . . . rumor at this juncture but let's wait and see what happens. We may never hear more of them - they may become swept away from any possible knowledge by the likes of us or they may become public much like the Invincibles . . . time will tell. As for myself - I certainly won't be a player :cool:

Point well taken, John--
 

Add to this "sudden emergence" of the original "Bo Whoop" super Fox 12 made for Nash Buckingham possibly some of the fabled $1000 grade Lefevers, the handful of Parkers in 24 gauge (reportedly made for UMC)--I can't say with any accuracy here, and as I am not going to be a "player" at the James Julia auction which this gun goes "under the hammer" I can only guess-

I think Nash's gun may well have been damaged- go back to 1948- and without knowing how old the car with the fenders was- or its make-just that it wasn't Nash's as he didn't own a car or drive, so I have read- and factoring in the WW11 non-production of passenger cars (to save gas, rubber, steel, etc) also possible it may have been a pre-War car-- fenders and running boards, December terrain (I don't know the area of Clarendon AK- or where the section 16 club was back then-) BUT- the gun, whether cased or uncased, and from the GBE report I believe it was cased- may well have slipped- perhaps mud, snow, the driver "gunned it" to get traction- possibly the barrels were damaged by the rear wheel, maybe also the stock was broken at the wrist- all speculation--

Another thought- and yes- apples to oranges BUT- were there any "counterfeited" A-1 Specials in 12 gauge with 32" barrels that might have been offered for sale as the "Czar's Parker" before Julia's sold the authenticated one to Jack Puglisi a few years ago??:cool:

Oh yeah! There certainly was . . . Read TPS pg. 666 with photos on pg. 662, 663 and 665

. . . with a big lawsuit to boot.

Burt T. Becker and names on gun barrels??
 

Perhaps I can add another "log to the existing fire" on the possible authenticity of the HE Fox the Julia auction house will be offering. Page 152 of the GBE book "The Best of NB"- Quote: On December 2, Nash wrote John Bailey-- "Well, I lost the big gun yesterday-terrible blow. ******** My name on case and also in left barrel of gun.. In Clarendon ***** . It's fully insured ***. This re-read, plus the fact that I have almost memorized this entire book, brings up these options: (1) The last one first here- the part about fully insured. Any way of knowing if Nash received an insurance settlement for the loss of his prized AH Fox gun? If so, then I believe that fact would negate any claim his heirs might have to a later sale of that historic Fox gun.

And now (2)- GBE made a point many times about TNB's writing with the battered old typewriter, and the errors that his editors may have proofed and corrected- Point being, Nash wrote "and also IN left barrel of gun" and if he had meant to say ON left barrel of gun, then the enscription of the gun shown in this thread is wrong, as his name is stamped on the right barrel. Also, page 154- the two letters from Mr. Becker circa 1950 show his name as BURT.BECKER- with NO SPACING as more commonly found BURT BECKER and possible sans the period after the T- would he not, as we are all somewhat creatures of habit, have then stamped his name in the same manner on the gun(s) he made that belonged to TNB???:rolleyes:

Francis, I think it's about time you bought a TPS and memorized it. I think Dan Cote has slightly imperfect full sets for about $225. I will sell you one of my perfect sets for about $275. plus shipping. You are now "one of us" so you have to start spending like "one of us".

Go Francis! I noticed that in/on detail also. Had to be a typo. As I like to say, "the difference between mediocrity and excellence in nearly every aspect of life is little more than the attention to detail"....

Another "eagle-eyed" Bush pilot perhaps??
 

What is the saying about bush pilots? Old ones, Bold ones, but few "Old and Bold"--I also am curious as I just registered on James Julia's website and tried to find either AH Fox or Burt becker shotguns listed for the coming March 2010 auction-fest. NADA, yet PGCA member Jim Kucaba has a foto in his post from Jul;ia's of the 'gun in??" here- very interesting??:rolleyes:

Mr. Morin,
Shes there. Just go to julias and click on highlighted gusn for the March auction. Keep scrolling down and it will show up.