VHE 20 ga
 

this is from a VHE 20 ga Remington gun, 237XXX S/N the gun has been in the same family from 1930's on. why would it not have anything on it except PARKER and S/N on trigger bow?? :corn: SCOTT

We need better pictures... come on!

Scott, did someone buff out the frame?

that the point nothen to see, a blank frame, except PARKER across the bottom of receiver and S/N on trigger bow

No, the word PARKER is very clear and and does not have that buffed shine to it. scott

It looks like a gun that has not been engraved. If this is the case, it is one of few Parkers that were made that way. Ed Muderlak pictures a smilar gun on page 286 of his Parker Guns, Shooting Flying. Better pictures please.

Yes, Bill, no engraving, can get better pics cell phone pics and it was bad lighting, but yes no engraving at all except "PARKER". looked strange with nothen on it. all the rest was wright,S/N ,barrel flat, receiver water table. scott

I own the gun pictured on page 286 of Ed's book, so I know they exist. You have a very interesting gun. There is a possibility that the Parker stock books have a notation explaining your gun.

A gun in the 237,000 range can have research material available in both the stock books and the IBM cards, either of which could have a notation about the lack of engraving. The gun in Muderlak is an earlier gun (1907) that is noted in the order books. The order book entry shows both the name of the first owner, the notation about the lack of engraving, and the amount credited for the lack of engraving. Some or all of this information may possibly be shown in a PGCA letter on the 20 gauge VHE. I sure would like to see that letter.

Interesting gun Scott. If I remember right there were a few graded guns that were ordered with no engraving also.

At least one CH, one BH, and now one VHE are known unengraved guns.

I knew of the B but the C is news to me. Thanks Bill.

Dave, the CH Grade is pictured on page 286 of Ed's "Shooting Flying" and also in two pictures in Double Gun Journal Volume 8, issue 1, page 52. Kevin McCormack also comments about unengraved Parkers in that article. Both of Kevin's articles on the Del Grego family and shop are worth a reread. Volume 7, issue 4 and Volume 8, issue 1. Since I don't post pictures, you can look at pictures of my favorite AHE trap gun in the second article. Dave, like some other of my trap guns, this one could be yours some day. I paid $2200 for it, but Linda may expect a little profit when she sells it. By the way, the 1972 pictures of Babe and Larry Del Grego Senior were taken by my Dad. My Dad and Larry were from the same rust belt generation and had plenty in common. Good grief, my Dad took those pictures 41 years ago.

I'll check it out. Thanks again Bill. Interesting stuff.

Sorry, Dave, I edited my last post to identify the grade of your next trap gun. I hope your favorite son enjoys it.

Hi Folks,

I hate to sound dumb but, here goes. How can you have an unengraved C grade or an unengraved B grade? Other than barrel steel and wood quality isn't the engraving on the receiver what really makes a gun a certain grade?

The fit and polish of the internal parts gets finer as the grade increases.

I have a 236XXX 20 VH with no PB engraving on the boxlock sides. Parker is on the underside of the frame. Parker Bros. Maker is on the rib as usual. Perhaps there was a vacation period when a bunch of frames were produced and no one got around to taking up that slack in 1933-35 when Remington first came around.

Larry Baer, on page 47 of his book, "A few guns were made until 1945, but were completed from inventory guns already serial numbered". This could be the case with our two guns; they may have been assembled from PB inventory and serial numbered parts by Remington; the assembly may have occurred AFTER Remington was informed that they could not use the Parker Bros. trade marked logo on the guns they were making. So the side engraving was eliminated in favor of the Parker name on the underside of the frame. Which engraved name appears in different styles, sizes and fonts on different near to - and actual - Remington era guns I have seen.

I thought the C had minimal engraving on it, but not 'none'?

I'd also like to see a pic of the B with no engraving.

The B is in a private collection and, so far, has not been offered for sale. Jerry's is a good question. The C was ordered as a C with Acme barrels and English Walnut with a skeleton butt, listed in the stock book as a C and priced in the order book as a C. It is also stamped "CH" and "4" on the water table. It is a C in all respects except the absence of engraving, for which the owner was given a $22.50 reduction in price. "Parker Brothers" is engraved on the sides of the receiver, that's it. The B and the VHE were made after the elimination of the order books, so less information would be available.

The intentional lack of engraving on higher grade guns (guns which ordinarily would be engraved in keeping with the standards) are surely a rarity. This rarity factor would clearly make them more valuable to those that want to assemble a collection of out-of-the-norm guns finished as intended, as opposed to simple errors. However, my appreciation is in the details of the quality of fit and finish, where stockmakers and engravors worked to the upper limits. These special ordered 'plain' guns would be lost on me. This notwithstanding, I find it very interesting to know of this facet of the company's history.

Edgar, there seems to be a more positive outlook toward unengraved best guns in Great Britain than here. The Purdeys with largely unengraved, blued frames are quite striking, in my opinion. Many of them have deeply carved breech balls though.

I wonder if these Parkers were ordered to get a "better" grade of steel in the barrels at a lower cost.

Bill, Not that I need to be reminded of all the dumb sales I've made, but if you told me every day, and I had a buck for every time I said "I wish I'd never sold....." I still couldn't buy back any of them. I had a plain jane William Ford 20 bore, smooth as a baby's bottom, and just couldn't get excited about it. Hand detachable sidelock, straight stockand 30" barrels, with hinged front trigger. It probably didn't want to be seen with me any less than me with it, but man, was selling that gun ever a mistake.

Gents, We must remember that Parker Bros. would supply the customer with anything they wanted within reason of course. We have a member with a great 26" 12 gauge VHE that letters as having been ordered with C grade wood and checkering. What a great gun.

Robert, $22.50 discount on the $150.00 C Grade wouldn't have qualified for "better barrels at lower cost". Unfortunately, there was no clue about the reason for the lack of engraving on the C Grade. The person ordering the gun was an active duty company grade commissioned officer in the northern plains. Maybe he didn't want to have an extravigant looking gun to accompany his senior officers on Great Plains bird hunts. This has always been my take on the order, but who knows.

Well, one thing about "people" is never say never concerning their behavior and/or taste.