LC SMith Extractor Question
 

Just picked up a LC Smith 12 ga. Couple of questions for the Smithis that may (are)be among us; are all Smiths hard to break open after firing (this gun is very tight) and I've noticed that while the extractor lifts the shell from the chamber (as its supposed to do), there's no tension behind the extractor at this point and it can easily be pushed back down. Not familiar with Smiths. I'm wondering if there is a broken or missing spring behind the extractor. Any thoughts?

Allen,

If your LC Smith has a "roll check" in the barrel lug the extractors can be pushed down once fully open. Roll checks were found in the early LC Smiths made in Fulton NY.

I do not know why your LC Smith could be hard to open rather than need of grease on the barrel hook, or however unlikely it was recently rejointed, i.e. put back on face. Since Smiths cock on opening there could be a problem with the cocking rods/system. My LC Smiths with and without roll checks are not any harder to open than a Parker.

Mark

Thanks Mark,
It's quite tight to open, but it does. So you're saying that unlike my Parker's extractor which can not be pushed down manually after opening the gun and extracting the shells, the extractors on smiths can be pushed easily down? I looked for a schematic on the web for smiths but could not find one. This gun was made in 1927. The LC Smith Assoc. does not have a detailed schematic.

USN-R (DD-943) WestPac 1968

Mark, is the 'roll check' that circular thing that is embedded in the barrel lug? When I took the barrels off the frame, I noticed this circular disk that rotates and has a 'tit' opn each side of the round disk. The disk rotated inside the barrel lug. I assume this is all correct?

Allen,

Yes, that is the roll check.

With the barrels removed from the frame operate the roll check and you should observe as you rotate it clockwise the extractor will rise. Once the roll check is rotated to it's most clockwise point the extractor is no longer under supported and may be pushed in flush with the breach face of the barrels.

PS: Please forgive my hasty photography. Not my best work...

Mark

Mark, it was a bitch putting the barrels back on the frame as I had to rotate the 'roll check' into the right position so the barrels would seat properly to the frame. Does this indicate a problem somewhere?

A (USN-R)
Retired civilian though!

There is no problem with the LC Smith but it is not a Parker or Fox design.

Rotate the roll check all the way clockwise and push the extractor down. Then insert the roll check lugs into the action and close the gun.

Mark

Thanks Mark. Assume this has to be done each time.

If so, that's good as all I have to do now is get the blueing removed from the frame and have it case colored, I'm in business then and have a nice shooter. Pictures to follow.
Thanks again Mark.
A

Photos of this shooter
 

Here are some photos of this Smith I just picked up. The gun is clean and whoever did the blueing and stock work did a nice job but the frame should have been case colored not blued. The good news is the blueing can be easily removed and the frame case colored. I may send it to Turnbull and have them do it. But at the end of the day, it's not meant to be a show piece but a decent shooter.

Turnbull does great work but see my albums on this site for accurate LC Smith case colors by Bachelder.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=226

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=224

Mark,
Brad's work is exceptional and I've spoken with him. He's running a 4-6 month backlog right now. I'm talking with Turnbull to see what their time frame is like, I want to shoot this thing, this year if possible. Your classic doubles are beautiful! Would you like to add another BHE to your collection? I have an original for sale if you're interested. regards, allen

allen whats wrong with a blued framed shooter...i have a lc smith 16 ga thats got a blued frame..serial no is within 75 numbers of the last lc smith built before the old factory collasped...i believe it to be factory blued but some say no...but it still looks good and dont bother the shooting at all...heh if shes a safe queen she needs to be correct but as a shooter no.... charlie

Good point Charlie. I do like case colors and Dan Cullity here in Sandwich, Mass is a world class gunsmith can do it for $250. so it's short money to make it more pleasing to my eye and more but not entirely correct as Cullity's colors are more English style but to me it doesn't matter. I just like case colors. (By the way, someone once said:"you'll never see a Brinks truck following a hearse") for what it's worth. From what I've read off the LC Smith Collectors web site, all Smith's left the factory with case colors. I suppose they would've blued one if it was a special order.

Allen,

I think you're right about the special orders. I have a few Smiths and one Field Grade from the mid 1920's is nickel plated; not every part, just the outside of the action, lock plates, and screw heads. Some say these were done aftermarket as the factory never advertised this kind of work and there is nothing in the records about it. Others feel that it was done at the factory because of the work masking off what was not to be nickeled in order that tolerances were maintained and not having to refit parts already fitted and assembled.
I also have an early 00 grade Smith that operates like yours and I thought there was something wrong with it also.

Jack Kuzepski

That's right Jack. Everything I've read so far on Smith's is that all frames left the factory case colored regardless of grade and moreover except for the very highest of grades, the internals were same for all grades. The finish work on some internal mechanisims might have been better on the higher grades but mechanically they all operated the same way.
Case colored side plates were the hallmark of LC Smith. (and their design configuration)

Allen: The Smith barrel lug 'disc and pin joint check' was used until about 1900 on extractor guns, and your gun appears to be a (pre-1913) 00 and should have Armour Steel barrels. There was some overlap in the Hunter Arms serial numbers so please check the date of manufacture again.

Drew,
It does have Armor Steel barrels and the serial # is 99636. I may have read the record wrong. All numbers on the gun match. Tight as a drum.

That number series has been 'lost' Allen, but it's likely 1898 (the 00 introduction year) or early 1899.

Yikes Drew, this means my Smith was made during the Spanish American War !! It sure doesn't look it. Wow. We measured the chambers yesterday and they're 2 3/4". I wonder if that's the original chamber length or did the previous owner(s)? have them bored out. Man do I feel old suddenly!

Chamber length is not an issue with Hunter Arms Co. or L.C. Smith Gun Co. 12 gauge guns, all of which had 2 3/4 inch chambers or were marked otherwise

1906 2E ordered with 2 5/8" chambers

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../295188387.jpg

Thanks Drew, each day I learn a little more from you folks. thanks again.
a

Drew, I assume something like Rio Target loads at no more than 1200 fps would be ok in this beast.

Allen, I second Mark's recommendation on Brad to do your LC. Well worth the wait and the colors will be perfect.