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-   -   Let us see some Folsom ordered trap guns (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9220)

Gary Carmichael Sr 01-12-2013 01:44 PM

Let us see some Folsom ordered trap guns
 
5 Attachment(s)
Here are some photo's of a 12g a 30" barreled 'TRAP' gun ordered by Folsom. Note the barrel steel is not engraved on the rib, also note the flying pigeon butt plate which was only used on guns ordered by Folsom for guns designated as Trap, I believe Folsom sent the mold to Parker for these butt plates. The barrels are laminated as called out in the letter, and is so stamped on the barrel flats. The gun is a one frame. I wish I had photo's of this gun before brads restoration, I started to sell it as a parts gun but with the unique features decided to save it, and I am glad she has been brought back to life, Thanks Brad for your work on this gun. Fellows I bought this gun at a gun show several years ago for 200.00 The reason was its terrible condition and the dealer said someone has changed the buttplate and it was not original to the gun it did not take me long to give him two hundred dollars, I knew the plate was Folsom. NEVER ! walk by an old Parker regardless of condition with out giving her a good look see! Tank You Gary

Gary Carmichael Sr 01-12-2013 01:49 PM

The rest of the photo's
 
5 Attachment(s)
This is the rest of the gun, Gary

Gary Carmichael Sr 01-12-2013 01:53 PM

Notice the order number is stamped on the barrel flats also

charlie cleveland 01-12-2013 02:58 PM

nice gun im sure your glad you saved this one...nice work done on this gun... charlie

Gary Carmichael Sr 01-12-2013 04:47 PM

Charlie, like any Parker, no matter the grade or fancy engraving it is a joy to shoot! glad to have found her in the junk yard so to speak. Gary

Bill Zachow 01-12-2013 05:58 PM

Gary, nice gun. I have a "Trap" also, serial 27777, shipped on order 14744. I have the complete order covering 69 trap guns. I wrote an article for Parker Pages some years ago about these guns and Parker's dealings with Folsom. The order I have show, besides the guns, the sale of "2 rubber dies" for $50. These, I assume are the dies used to make the special buttplates. I believe that since Folsom purchased the dies, they realized they could make their own plates. Does your order specify "trap gun butt" as mine (order 14744) does? If not, then Folsom fitted the plates themselves. As you can see, I have found these guns very interesting.

George M. Purtill 01-12-2013 06:46 PM

Like I always say, when I grow up I want to be Gary Carmichael.

George M. Purtill 01-12-2013 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Zachow (Post 92604)
Gary, nice gun. I have a "Trap" also, serial 27777, shipped on order 14744. I have the complete order covering 69 trap guns. I wrote an article for Parker Pages some years ago about these guns and Parker's dealings with Folsom. The order I have show, besides the guns, the sale of "2 rubber dies" for $50. These, I assume are the dies used to make the special buttplates. I believe that since Folsom purchased the dies, they realized they could make their own plates. Does your order specify "trap gun butt" as mine (order 14744) does? If not, then Folsom fitted the plates themselves. As you can see, I have found these guns very interesting.

Bill that was a very nice article you wrote. I remember it well.

George M. Purtill 01-12-2013 06:57 PM

2 Attachment(s)
This is what a Folsom Trap gun looks like in its case. #27607
I think the order # is 15464, an order of 25 guns.

George M. Purtill 01-12-2013 07:20 PM

7 Attachment(s)
Gary
I did save a few before pictures of the locks in process.
Brad has the rest of the gun and it should be home in a while.

Dean Romig 01-12-2013 07:24 PM

I believe one currently resides in the display case at the Meriden Historical Society.

Dean Romig 01-12-2013 07:27 PM

Good grief George... put some pants on.

Incredible amount of crud behind those lock plates but what a nice job of cleaning you did.

Jeff Kuss 01-12-2013 08:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Ten ga. and 12 ga.

George M. Purtill 01-12-2013 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Carmichael Sr (Post 92586)
Notice the order number is stamped on the barrel flats also

Our guns were in the same order. I knew we were related.

Bill Zachow 01-13-2013 05:53 AM

Does order 15464 specify "trap gun butt"? Could our official researcher give us this information, if it is not against the rules? I noted that Gary's letter did not mention it. I am interested because of the die transfer in my earlier letter.

Gary Carmichael Sr 01-13-2013 07:51 AM

George then I guess our guns were ordered at the same time my order number is 15464

George M. Purtill 01-13-2013 08:23 AM

Gary
My gun is with Brad right now so I can't say for sure but my records say the barrels are Plain Twist 32 inches 12 gauge.
Brad is doing the barrels and fixing a lock. And a couple other things.
I will post pictures.

I bought the gun for the case.

Gary Carmichael Sr 01-13-2013 11:28 PM

Looks like the ten gauge guns had the pigeon flying to the right instead of the left like 12's

Craig Parker 01-14-2013 12:55 AM

Trap 10ga
 
5 Attachment(s)
Another one on that order from Folsom, Grade 1 32" Lam 10 gauge.

Craig

George M. Purtill 01-14-2013 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Carmichael Sr (Post 92780)
Looks like the ten gauge guns had the pigeon flying to the right instead of the left like 12's

And the bird is different as well?

Bill Zachow 01-14-2013 07:11 AM

For everyones' information, especially the private messengers, (I am lousy about returning messages) I note that the above "factory letter" does not detail out the "trap gun butt". Since Mr. Conrad had the order book and order, I would think that specific information was most critical to the documentation of these guns. As I mentioned earlier, order number 14744, covering 69 trap guns and 60 "not trap" clearly identifies which is which in the first column of the order. Until our researcher can further clarify this point, I will continue to think that Folsom, using the dies purchased in order 14744, made the buttplates themselves and fit them to non specific Parker guns, as needed.

Chuck Bishop 01-14-2013 11:44 AM

I've looked at both orders 14744 and 15464.

As Bill Zachow states, 14744 was a very large order from Folsom Arms on March 9, 1882. On the first page of the order in the left hand column, it says "Top Action, Ext Rib". 1882 was about the time the top action was introduced. On the first page, the entire order was 4 1/2 pages and each page had about 40 guns on it, near the bottom is a bracket in the left hand column saying "Trap Gun Butt." These Trap Gun Butt guns continued on the next page and ended on the third page about 2/3 of the way down the page. The rest of the page and the 4th page had "Not Trap" indicating standard butts. At the end of the order, after the last gun listed, it says: (2) Rubber dies $50.00. It also says, if I read it correctly "Deliv in July & later". Remember these guns were ordered in March but most were not shipped until late in 1882 and in some cases delivered in the spring of 1883.

Order # 15464 was a full 1 page order (about 40 guns) placed on May 29, 1882. This order also said "Top Act, Ext Rib" in the left hand column and also listed a large group of guns as "Trap Gun Butts." There is no indication of rubber dies being ordered.

There is nothing in the Stock Book indicating the guns were for Folsom.

Bill Zachow 01-14-2013 04:25 PM

Thank you for the info on order 15464. Members with guns from this order might wish to have their letters updated with the trap gun butt designation.

George M. Purtill 01-19-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Zachow (Post 92604)
Gary, nice gun. I have a "Trap" also, serial 27777, shipped on order 14744. I have the complete order covering 69 trap guns. I wrote an article for Parker Pages some years ago about these guns and Parker's dealings with Folsom. The order I have show, besides the guns, the sale of "2 rubber dies" for $50. These, I assume are the dies used to make the special buttplates. I believe that since Folsom purchased the dies, they realized they could make their own plates. Does your order specify "trap gun butt" as mine (order 14744) does? If not, then Folsom fitted the plates themselves. As you can see, I have found these guns very interesting.

Bill
Would you mind if I wrote an update to your article? There are some very fine pictures in this thread that I would include with permission of course.

Bill Zachow 01-19-2013 05:55 PM

George, not at all. Perhaps you could ask our researcher if there are any other orders from Folsom, besides the two discussed, covering guns with trap gun butts. Be nice to know the total number of guns ordered. If Folsom was ordering more guns with trap gun butts, I wonder why they were charged for the two rubber dies in the early order. Looking forward to seeing your article.

George M. Purtill 01-19-2013 08:57 PM

Bill
I will be honored if you would look it over for me. I have 3 articles in process now (plus this makes 4) but I will move this to spot number 2 if Brad gives me my gun back. Target date will be July 15.

Gary Carmichael Sr 01-20-2013 08:41 AM

I would love to have my letter updated to include the "trap designation if it's possible?

Jeff Kuss 01-20-2013 05:11 PM

I finally got both of mine out of the safe. The ten gauge is 46035 and the 12 is 47629.

George M. Purtill 01-20-2013 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kuss (Post 93519)
I finally got both of mine out of the safe. The ten gauge is 46035 and the 12 is 47629.

Jeff
is there an order number on the barrel flats?

Jeff Kuss 01-20-2013 07:01 PM

George,
There is no order number on either gun.
Jeff

George M. Purtill 01-20-2013 08:50 PM

Jeff
If I am remembering correctly they had stopped stamping order numbers well before 46XXX.

George M. Purtill 01-24-2013 04:00 PM

I have started writing the PP article draft outline and it will have a Parkers Found section. I would like to feature PGCA members guns (and names) in there.
Please contact me with info and pictures by email at george.m.purtill@snet.net

Provide at a minimum:
your name and if you want to be anonymous
serial number
gauge
frame size
grade
order number and whether the order number is on the barrel flats
if the gun has a TRAP BUTT plate
which way the bird on the buttplate is flying- right or left
whether you have a PGCA letter

Bill Zachow 01-24-2013 04:11 PM

Jeff, do you have letters on your guns and do the letters specify "trap gun butt"?

Dean Romig 01-24-2013 05:28 PM

George, as less than half of all PGCA members have Internet access maybe you should place a "Request For Information" of Folsom Trap Guns in a couple of issues of Parker Pages in order to maximize the number of respondants you will get.

George M. Purtill 01-24-2013 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Romig (Post 94088)
George, as less than half of all PGCA members have Internet access maybe you should place a "Request For Information" of Folsom Trap Guns in a couple of issues of Parker Pages in order to maximize the number of respondants you will get.

Can my editor do that?

Dean Romig 01-24-2013 09:27 PM

Yes, I think he can. Look for it in the Spring Issue - I think he can put something together that emulates a request for information on Folsom Trap Guns belonging to PGCA Members. If you are not pleased with the attempt the editor makes at soliciting such information perhaps you would like to write up something more to your liking for the following issue. :whistle:

George M. Purtill 01-25-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Romig (Post 94135)
Yes, I think he can. Look for it in the Spring Issue - I think he can put something together that emulates a request for information on Folsom Trap Guns belonging to PGCA Members. If you are not pleased with the attempt the editor makes at soliciting such information perhaps you would like to write up something more to your liking for the following issue. :whistle:

Check your emails old man.

Dean Romig 01-25-2013 03:44 PM

George - Thanks for writing up the ad just the way you want it.

See how efficient that was?

edgarspencer 01-25-2013 04:00 PM

Get a room!

Dean Romig 01-25-2013 04:13 PM

You mean a padded cell like yours??


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