Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums

Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums (https://parkerguns.org/forums/index.php)
-   General Discussions about Other Fine Doubles (https://parkerguns.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Weird Pump - kinda neat though (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8377)

Steve McCarty 10-20-2012 06:11 PM

Weird Pump - kinda neat though
 
Okay all of you gun gurus out there, what is this pump shotgun? I think I've seen pictures of them before. It has two markings, Western Field, which I think is Sears on the left side of the receiver and a nicely engraved dog. On the left side of the tube near the breach is marked "Browning Patient 12 GA Proof Tested". Looks like 2.5 and no choke markings. A pawn shop find that was so cheap and so interesting that I had to buy it just a few hours ago.

Safety is just in front of the trigger. Action feels very smooth and the steel, which has been cleaned to white overall looks excellent. Quality appears to be excellent too. Very nice wood. Gun would look very nice if browned.

Kind of interesting how it comes apart. Locking lug is on the top of the receiver.

What is this beast?

Thanks in advance.
SM

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...VMA211/001.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...VMA211/005.jpg

Steve McCarty 10-20-2012 06:20 PM

I bought this strange Browning because I trust Browning designs and it looks like a turn of the 19th Century gun and with a little work it'll clean up to be very nice. The machining is spectacular which is what drives many of us wild about 19th Century guns.

I removed the barrel and cleaned the tube and she is nice and shinny inside. Very little rust. It still has some white buffing paste here and there. Someone obviously wanted to gussy the gun up and then pawned it instead.

I also found a very faint WW (Winchester Western?) PAT mark inside in between the barrel lugs.

Andros Theophanous 10-20-2012 06:22 PM

Steve, I believe that is an ole' Stevens browning model 520, most people called it the hump-back model due to its unusual reciver, I am familiar with the gun because my Grampa owns a model 620. And I would like to inform you it is a takedown, all you do is turn the mag tube slightly pull the barrel down and forward the pump than slide it off the reciver.

Drew Hause 10-20-2012 06:24 PM

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../376888323.jpg

Western Field was a Wards tradename

Steve McCarty 10-20-2012 07:14 PM

Thanks gents. I discovered that Wards sold these too, apparently in the 30s. It does not save Stevens anywere on the gun. I discovered that it is a take down when I took it apart, doing it backwards however. Unscrewed the magazine plug screw and off she popped and the long magazine spring flew across the room along with the plug! Found'em though.

It is a very nice gun. I read that most are 16s and 20s and that 12s are rare, but I don't know it that is true or not.

My guns looks like the one picture posted above. Nice engraved solid rib and machining galore. I discovered how to unscrew the magazine tube a bit and jerk the gun apart. I like the balance, but the gun is heavy.

Anyway a neat, weird shotgun find! She cycles quickly and very smooth. I'll bet no one at the club has ever seen one. Should be fun when I break it out of the case!

Steve McCarty 10-20-2012 07:36 PM

My guns is very like a Stevens 520 "double hump back". Later ones had a straight topped receiver. They were sold by Wards and Sears. Sears guns were usually called "Ranger" and are so marked. Some were used as riot guns by the military during WWII.

Apparently it will slam fire like early Model 12s. The safety is a lever right front of the trigger inside the trigger guard. Different, but easy to find!

Anyway, thanks gents for all of your help. Oh, it's a 2 3/4 gun and all of them were. Stevens made a highly engraved $100 model. They also made 28, 30 and 32 inch tubes, mine is a 30 which is what they all came in unless a special order.

Drew Hause 10-20-2012 07:49 PM

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../399203603.jpg

charlie cleveland 10-20-2012 09:02 PM

i have a 20 ga in this type old gun..mine was sold through mongomory wards..well made guns and point and shoot well... charlie

Steve McCarty 10-21-2012 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie cleveland (Post 83488)
i have a 20 ga in this type old gun..mine was sold through mongomory wards..well made guns and point and shoot well... charlie

Charlie, have you shot your 20? It feels very smooth to me, no hitches or jerks when working the action. Gun nuts know of Stevens but we don't hear of them much today. I think they hooked up with Savage, which, of course, is still going strong. So I guess one can think of a Savage as also being a sorta Stevens.

Steve McCarty 10-21-2012 02:26 PM

It is interesting how this gun breaks in two. I've never seen anything like it. You unscrew the magazine, it has finger groves on it to help with your grip. First you jack the action back, then grab the magazine where you see the grip place and unscrew it a little. This draws a lock back and allows you to push the barrel up a series of slots and out of the top of the receiver. It comes apart with the barrel and magazine group. It doesn't happen easily though. I have to tap the bottom of the barrel behind the magazine with a mallet. When I removed the barrel it didn't look like it had been removed for a long time, so it sticks.

The massive amount of machining required to make this gun is just amazing. It feels "quality" and the wood is very nice. All told, the Stevens model 520 just might be one of those "sleepers". You'll never pay over $150 for one. A model 12 of similar age will cost you $500 to $600.

Steve McCarty 10-21-2012 02:35 PM

Of course, my Stevens is a project gun. It's been burnished and it needs some kind of finish on the receiver, magazine and barrel. Do any of you gun mechanics out there have a suggestion how I should color the metal? I'd like to brown it. Can I do that? Is there a cold browning solution?

If I have it reblued by a gunsmith it'll cost way more than the gun is worth and it'll come out glossy and very black. This gun doesn't want to be glossy. I've never tried to cold blue an entire gun. If you try don't they come out mottled and dull?

A thin skyblue, re-blue would look nice, kind of like the original Colt SAA cylinder/barrel blue, but can that be done by the average gunsmith....or me? That light blue kind of lets the steel color show through and I think that would look nice on this gun.

If some of the burnishing flaws and a bit of pitting here and there, show through the finish that's okay with me. I don't want to take it down anymore. It looks to me that the old finish was taken off with some kind of acid and then buffed. Lettering still looks pretty sharp though.

Fifty years ago an old gun dealor, Dave Cunningham; an icon on the West Coast in the gun biz, told me that to brown a gun all you have to do is to paint it with vinegar and leave it outside. Seems a little Redneck to me....but my neck is a little pink.

Steve McCarty 10-21-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Hause (Post 83471)

Thank you for the picture.

I like the way the safety works on this shotgun. It is a lever right in front of your finger when it is on the trigger. It moves forward and aft. It is not automatic. So you have to put it ON. If it is ON and you want to switch it off you push it forward with your trigger finger, so there is no searching for the safety, which some of us have to do when we shoot lots of different shotguns, like I do.

Yeah, I know; if you want to really get good you should always shoot the same gun...and that is correct, but I just like shooting guns of all kinds and I've got a slew of them, so I shoot one gun this week and another the next.

Fred Preston 10-21-2012 06:48 PM

My Dad had a Mod.11 with a safety like that and, when I was young, he would come home from bird hunting with the back of his trigger finger all scratched and bloody from releasing it.

Steve McCarty 10-21-2012 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Preston (Post 83531)
My Dad had a Mod.11 with a safety like that and, when I was young, he would come home from bird hunting with the back of his trigger finger all scratched and bloody from releasing it.

I was wondering if my finger will be hit by that safety lever, but since I have yet to shoot the gun I don't know yet. I can see how it might happen.

charlie cleveland 10-21-2012 07:43 PM

steve i have shot mine at doves and it is a very good swinging and shooting gun...it is smooth in cycling the shells..not as smooth as a model 12 but close...your rite on the price and this is a bargain really...i like the old stevens guns i have several.... charlie

Steve McCarty 10-21-2012 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie cleveland (Post 83538)
steve i have shot mine at doves and it is a very good swinging and shooting gun...it is smooth in cycling the shells..not as smooth as a model 12 but close...your rite on the price and this is a bargain really...i like the old stevens guns i have several.... charlie

I'd love to shoot dove again. Last time I shot them was five years ago in Mexico and I had a ball. I'm not going to Mexico again soon and probably not in my lifetime.

I can see how this old Stevens would swing well. It is heavy. What I can tell about the action is that it jerks back, stops with a bump and then you jam it forward in two distinct actions instead of one smooth movement. Seems okay, though.

The gun has about 3/8 inch cast off, so my eye lines right up with the solid rib/bead. I can see where the comb has been raised as there is a gap at the bottom of the wrist where it meets the receiver. LOP is 14" which is perfect for me. So the guns fits. I'll shoot it at trap next week. A cheap gun at that club is a $10,000 piece. Some much more expensive than that. Engraving with a lot of gold, etc...nice guns for sure, beautiful wood, etc. I'll break out my $150 Silver Special, which is the name I've hung on the old Monkey Wards gun! LOL. I'll break 22 or 23, which seems to be my average.

There are lots of pins and screws that have to be removed to take the gun down. Some guns fall apart with a magic flip of a bit. Not this beast, but it goes back together easier, IMO than a model 12.The bits kind of drop right in. The parts are complex looking pieces which holes and nubs and nothing is square. They fit easily together like a puzzle. Then you screw them down from the outside. This gun must have cost a mint to make. It seems overly complex. Browning was intrigued by parts that fit and did complex things. Many of his guns are overly complicated, the Superposed is famous for it. While never a famous gun, this Stevens (Mossberg?) has a myriad of parts too, but apparently they aren't prone to breakage. The gun is known for being reliable.

Anyway, guys if you happen to wander across one of these in the junk barrel at a gun show, it will be cheap and they are interesting guns, of you like weird pumps. Parts are available from Numrich.

Steve McCarty 10-21-2012 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie cleveland (Post 83538)
steve i have shot mine at doves and it is a very good swinging and shooting gun...it is smooth in cycling the shells..not as smooth as a model 12 but close...your rite on the price and this is a bargain really...i like the old stevens guns i have several.... charlie

Of course, the Crack Shot was a classic. About 20 years ago some guy went into the biz of making new ones. They were very fancy guns. Little .22's and as I recall they cost $600. He sent me a brochure. I thought them very expensive for a little falling block Crack Shot, even if it did look like Michelanglo engraved it.

Destry L. Hoffard 10-22-2012 06:04 PM

Steve,

We've got the same taste in pumps apparently. I've got an early one of these marked J. Stevens Arms & Tool that's straight grip with a 32 inch solid rib barrel. I keep threatening to take it duck hunting but it's been so many years since I shot a pump out hunting I'm sure I'd forget to shuck it. I've shot it quite a bit at trap though, it's a clay buster for certain.

I've shot quite a few Model 11 and A5 autos with that kind of safety and never had any trouble with it banging my finger.

I've been on the hunt for a 20 gauge for a long time, had a couple chances at Sears ones but I want one marked Stevens for some reason. The 20 gauges were the first 3 inch chamber gun in that gauge produced as a model all it's own. I've seen a catalog listing for them and they even came in 32 inch!


Destry

Drew Hause 10-22-2012 06:33 PM

Guy Ward was a Stevens rep and did pretty well at the traps with a 525
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL6004019.pdf
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL5925025.pdf
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL6006019.pdf

Dave Noreen 10-22-2012 09:11 PM

From the 1912 J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. shotgun catalogue --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../No5201912.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...rGrade1912.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../No5351912.jpg

In the 1927 J. Stevens Arms Co. catalogue they introduced the streamlined No. 620, and moved the old hump-backed no. 520 to their lower priced Riverside Arms Co. line --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...alogueNo57.jpg

Brian Dudley 10-23-2012 12:45 PM

I had one of these Rangers in 12g. not long ago. Has the safety in the trigger guard like that too. It is very similar to the Stevens models that had the tang safety, but a bit different. It is neat how they take down. Not the easiest thing in the world, but not too bad.

Birchwood Casey makes a cold barrel brown. I have some, but have never used it. The Laurel Mountain Forge Browning solution can be used cold as well.

Steve McCarty 10-23-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Hause (Post 83653)

Thanks Drew for posting these items. Interesting, huh. Since this Stevens 520 was being shot in 1912 it means it was a direct competitor to the Winchester Models 12/97.

This gun, weighing (according to your post) 7 lb 13 oz feels like a real chunk of steel! But it is lighter than the Remington Model 11 which they started making around 1903.

It is interesting collecting repeating shotguns of this era. They were serious shooters back then and if shooters wanted to be modern they often bought repeaters. My 1923 Model 12 has cast off and so does this 520 (which is actually a Montgomery Wards model 30 (I think); but is the same gun as the Stevens 520). So the men who ordered these guns were serious about a gun that fit. Most folks today accept the gun as it comes off of the rack. I always have. If I want a gun with cast off I have to buy an old one.

This is a fine double site and I hesitate to even mention my old pumps/autos; but I find them interesting. They are usually cheap - but they are far from junk. Being a shotgun kook, I'm a fan of them all.

Steve McCarty 10-23-2012 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Dudley (Post 83741)
I had one of these Rangers in 12g. not long ago. Has the safety in the trigger guard like that too. It is very similar to the Stevens models that had the tang safety, but a bit different. It is neat how they take down. Not the easiest thing in the world, but not too bad.

Birchwood Casey makes a cold barrel brown. I have some, but have never used it. The Laurel Mountain Forge Browning solution can be used cold as well.

Thanks for the info about the browning solution. I'll look into it. I'd never heard of cold browning before!

I'm going to shoot this 520 Thursday. I hope I don't insult the other guys' with their fine guns which are amazing! I don't want the guys to think I'm making fun of them.

Dave Noreen 10-23-2012 03:34 PM

The later version of the No. 520, sometimes found marked No. 520-30, that were the "riot" guns of WW-II and later, and are also found in hunting versions with "store brand" markings does not appear in any J. Stevens Arms Co. or Savage/Stevens/Fox catalogues in my collection. It does appear in my 1950 Savage/Stevesn/Fox parts catalogue as the Model 520A though --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...istNov1951.jpg

Steve McCarty 10-23-2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Dudley (Post 83741)
I had one of these Rangers in 12g. not long ago. Has the safety in the trigger guard like that too. It is very similar to the Stevens models that had the tang safety, but a bit different. It is neat how they take down. Not the easiest thing in the world, but not too bad.

Birchwood Casey makes a cold barrel brown. I have some, but have never used it. The Laurel Mountain Forge Browning solution can be used cold as well.

Yep that Stevens has the strangest take down feature that I've ever seen! You jack the forearm, twist the magazine which partially unscrews it and a locking device slips out of the receiver. You tap the barrel from the bottom and it slides from the bottom and it comes out the top of the receiver along a set of machined groves. Very strange.

No gun maker in his right mind would make such a gun today. It would cost a fortune to make.

Steve McCarty 10-23-2012 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen (Post 83752)
The later version of the No. 520, sometimes found marked No. 520-30, that were the "riot" guns of WW-II and later, and are also found in hunting versions with "store brand" markings does not appear in any J. Stevens Arms Co. or Savage/Stevens/Fox catalogues in my collection. It does appear in my 1950 Savage/Stevesn/Fox parts catalogue as the Model 520A though --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...istNov1951.jpg

There are several of those 520 - 30s offered for sale on GI, but they want $1800 for one.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2025, Parkerguns.org