Barrel Pitting affect on Value?
 

I'm considering a beautifully refinished and intricately engraved (30+ years ago) VH 16 GA. "O" frame. It's got gorgeous English walnut on it and is generally in very nice condition.

But, the barrels are both significantly pitted (but have been judged safe by a gunsmith) and there is a little play in the action.

The question how much might the pitting reduce the gun's value? The seller is looking for about $3K.

Thanks!

i am no expert ( all you need to do i look at what i do buy )

but a redone VH with "significantly pitted " tubes ,

personally I would consider that over priced,

engraving and restock aside - barrels are the key IMHO

The old saying is you can just about fix anything. Except bad barrels. I'd not step into a gun with bad barrels unless it was worth sleeving. Post some detailed pictures of the gun and we can render a more educated opinion.

Tough to get interior barrel pix. Any suggestions?

Got the impression the engraving and wood might be over the top and thus the gun might be worth sleeving. Regarding the pits themselves, I'd have to know what the minimum barrel wall thickness is. The same smith who said they are fine should imo have the ability to tell you what that minimum barrel wall thickness is. He's the one who is putting his neck out by saying they are "safe" to shoot. You also said the action is a bit loose. Seems like there are concerns on multiple fronts.

Previous owner shot quail with it for 15+ years with it. Gun looks great...on the outside.

Sam

Sam, don't fall for a pretty gun. We tend to pay too much for the "pretty" while ignoring everything that will reduce the gun's value. "Pitted" and "loose" will cause me to walk away every time.

So, based on comments PCGA members seem to think $3K is too much for a beautiful Parker 16 VH Grade, O frame with exquisite engraving, case hardening beautiful stock and pitted barrels? Is $2K more like it? Or even less?

Dear PGCA members, wanted to make it clear that the exterior of these barrels are beautiful, but it's the bores that are pitted. Still a problem?

sam there saying that the pits of the inside of the barrels and being loose on frame is the problem...yep there giving you good advice.... charlie

The bores are what's important, and even if they are safe, if you ever try to sell the gun first thing people are going to look at are the bores...Being that it is lose and bad bores this just seems like a money pit to me. I would walk away.

Minimum barrel thickness is what's important. If you love the gun (sounds like you do) then my 2 cents is to tell them you will buy it contigent on having a barrel inspection done by someone with the proper tools. You'll pay for the shipment to and from the barrel guy and you'll pay for the inspection itself. I think the barrel guy can also provide his opinion on whether the gun needs to be tightened up and an estimated cost to fix (if necessary). A good smith will charge about $100 for that service and he can turn it around really quickly (maybe in one day). One I can personally recommend is Dewey Vicknair. He works on lots of Parkers for members. Dewey can advise you what you have and provide real numbers for consideration.

sam: sounds like you really like this gun? if so, buy the damn thing and be happy with it.

Sam, I think ultimately it is your choice and whether or not you will end up happy with the gun years from now. I can well remember shooters buying Springfield and Mauser rifles in the 50's and 60's, putting on a new Fajen or Bishop stock, bending the bolt and mounting a scope. Hundreds of dollars would be spent making a, "custom", rifle. In the end though it was still a Springfield or Mauser cheap sporter unless it was done by the likes of Al Biesen, Jerry Fisher, or Griffin and Howe. If your V grade Parker was engraved by somebody with the experience and quality of Kornbrath, Muerrle, John Warren, Claus Willig, (you get the picture) it will always be simply a nice V grade shooter. Give thought to what is wrong with the gun rather than how nice it looks on the outside. I like the comments above: What is the thickness of the barrel walls, just how loose is it and how much will it take to fix it so it isn't loose. If it is loose from normal shooting then that sounds to me like one heck of a lot of shooting for that gun. Also you said the gun is refinished. Engraving covers up a lot of what's wrong with a gun's outside finish. Are there pits you can see under the new finish? These are things to consider. In the end the choice is up to you. Personally I would rather have a plain jane but in good shooting condition V grade that has not been played with. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Vicknair's Opinion?
 

Tom, Thanks, I sent a file of pix of the gun off to Dewey. Let's see what he says.

Sam,
A lesson we all have to learn, is to buy as much condition as you can afford. There are a lot of nice guns out there for the $3000 price range you are talking about. Most of them will not have the issues that this one has. I like Eric would walk away from this one.
Jeff

You're probably right, but I tried trading my two standard V's for a higher grade or better condition V on PGCA earlier and no one was interested. Thanks for everyone's advice. Guess I've got to go with my gut on this one.

The barrels can be "faced up" and made tight and the pitted bore can be honed. However one can only hone so much. To reline the barrels is expensive...around a grand.

Here is the deal. The gun sounds like a pretty gun and being a Parker it will hold its value even if worked on. Are you spending more than you will recover if you sell the gun? Probably, but I never buy a gun for investment. I buy them to shoot, or just plain fondle and put back in the case.

I have passed up on many more guns that I should have bought and did not, than the other way around....

Sam, you've received a lot of sound advice here... what is the latest development on this VH?

I see Steve has chosen to quote me as his lead-in for a reply to a month-old thread... I wonder why?
Possibly he believes my opinion is unfounded?

Don't look too deeply Dean. Your post stimulated a thought and that's all. I never criticize someone's opinion, so please don't gleen offense.

A month old? I don't care. Does anyone? Something posted a month ago is still as valid as ever isn't it? Sure it is.

Concerning the condition of shotguns. I have bought some pretty sick ones and paid to heal them up. Of course it is always a toss up if the expense is justified. Justified? I paid $1200 to "bring back" an ancient 1850's Hardy Bros. muzzle loader that isn't worth much. I'll never recover the money, but she is a pretty thing today. I used to shoot it when I was a high school kid. My dad bought it for my 16th birthday. Here she is:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...hotguns019.jpg

Nope, not 'gleening' anything and I never intend to give or take offense.

That's a nice looking old Hardy Bros. muzzle loader too.

I'm in agreement with Jeff K's month-old post... that "there are a lot of nice guns out there for that $3000 price range and most of them will not have the issues that this one has". Which, in my humble opinion leaves only the "pretty" aspect of such a gun... that's all I meant but Jeff said it better and after a month, his statement is still quite valid too.

I agree that nowadays $3K can buy a nice Parker and it is probably better to find one for that price and spring for it than buy a sick gun for that number. I own only two Parkers, a SBT SC which I paid $1500 for more than a decade ago and a GH that I bought last year for $900. Both guns took a little work and neither are what I'd call pristine, but still nice guns. The SBT was covered with a thin coat of bright orange rust, having been stored in a humid climate inside an old plastic case. Not healthy for the old girl.

The other didn't open or cock, but took little work to fix, just $160. Here is the SBT: (It's not a very good picture.)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...hotguns009.jpg

My GH:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...hotguns023.jpg

This gun is totally untouched, except for some work on its guts. I'm going to keep it as is. Bores are bright and shinny. I think the gun broke in the 40's sometime and lived for a lifetime or two in a closet. It is F and F, a 12, 30 inch tubes, an 1896 gun.

Better Picture?

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...hotguns025.jpg

As one can see this GH is far from in outstanding condition, but as I handle the gun, which locks up like new and has light, crisp triggers and a fine bore, I think its original condition is charming. With RST shells I think she'll shoot up a storm. She has a no 2frame and is heavy!

The gun in question is a "no buy" at $500 until we see pictures. It is a "no buy" at $3000 or any price as long as it has pitted barrels. Sorry, it seems to be a bad gun no matter what.

Yes, pictures would be nice.

On a slightly different note, while I understand that a slightly pitted bore will affect value, but does it effect shootablity/pattern? As an example I own an ancient GEW 98 WWI Mauser with a terrible ringed bore. I can see the rifling though. However the rifle shoots almost about 2 MOA...even off those rotten open sights. It is a tight bore and is so marked at the breech. The trigger while a two stage is light as a feather!

Okay, we are talking about shotguns. Does a pristine bore shoot a more even patter than a blemished one?

I purchased a pitted out twist barrel for 66.00 off ebay. The muzzle was damaged so a 28 inch barrel was created, with mod. chokes. I easily fit it to my 1 frame hammer gun and shoot it regularly. With the good wads it patterns great, Cleaning the barrel is a major problem. Pitts are hard to clean inside a tube. Dave

Interesting; and thank you, Dave.