410 Gun Porn
 

Now it seems like all you fellows want to see is 8 or 10ga guns with at least 32" barrels that weigh upwards of 12 pounds, or you want to see a couple fellows going at each other.....that's what draws the attention. So only a few might be interested in these little fellows.


First we have a little Ithaca NID 410, with original 18 1/2" barrels, original condition from 1936. Its listed in the Ithaca records as an Auto and Burgler Gun, which obviously its not.

Lefever
 

Next we have a little Lefever 410.

Enders
 

And finally an Enders 410.

Bruce,
There all nice but my fav would have to be the little Ithaca 410, what a cool gun.

And of course the Parker AHE .410 Skeet



.

"Enders Royal Service" was a "trade brand" gun, actually made by H & D Folsom Arms Co., of 314 Broadway, NYC, at their factory in Norwich, Conn. I'm sure it started life lookng like this one marked Crescent Fire Arms Co., New Empire --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...o/PC100004.jpg

I wonder if that lovely little No. 2E Ithaca actually started life with a pistol grip of an Auto & Burgler?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Burglerjpg.jpg

That stock, while of at least No. 4 wood, has the checkering pattern on the grip of the 1935 and later Field Grades. A half-pistol grip is pretty rare on NID era Ithacas. In fact the only one I've seen, before this, is on my No. 4E 20-gauge NID --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...StockRight.jpg

There is no indication in the records that the little Ithaca is or was anything other than shown. It is however, listed in the records as an Auto and Burglar gun, per Walt Snyder's Ithaca guns book.

Enders was one of many trade names for guns made by Crescent Arms Company, which was one of several companies controlled by Folsom.

I do not own these guns, owned by a buddy, and I know he had the history of them before acquisition.

Fox B 410
 

And another

I had a friend who had an Ithaca Auto & Burglar that had been redone (and looked factory) as a full gun when the little guns were outlawed.

not sure if it went back, or if it was short stopped on the way out when the law was enacted.

the few folks I knew that shot the "pistol" version did not do it often

I love the small bores and that Ithaca is a sweet looking gun. I know the whereabouts of a nice Iver Johnson Skeeter 410 but if the Gods are shining I'll have my own 410 Porn delivered to the Southern:bowdown:

I also have a line on a mint ithaca NID 28 just in case anyone might be interested.

Beautiful little guns. Not up on the Foxies, is that one a SBT? Just to bring in the riffraff, here's a little Turkish one I bought from Jaqua's a couple of years ago. It weighs an ounce or so over 5 pounds on a triple 0 frame with 30" barrels; SST but no ejectors. The dimensions are right and with the long barrels, isn't whippy. It regularly breaks targets from the 16 yard line and has killed a number of Phez withn its 35 yard limit. Shown here in comparison with my NH, 3 frame, 32" 10ga; not made for a small person.

I have only shot a .410 a few times, but when I do the report is deafening, at least to my tender ears. They are just about shot. The load must come out supersonic because it cracks like a 45/70.

And an Elsie

Bruce, What that Enders 410 a custom engraving job?

Small bores are of course, all the rage today. I need a 28 gauge. Parker of course, invented the gauge and I'd love to get a Parker 28.

I have a friend who owns a gazillion acres of land in eastern Oregon. He only allows 28's or smaller on the place. I need one to hunt with him.

The 28 is a great guage and one of my favorites for Grouse and Woodcock not to mention my favorite upland bird the bobwhite Quail.

Ahem... no, Parker Bros. did not invent the 28 gauge. Parker Bros. however, may have been one of the first American gunmakers to produce a gun in 28 gauge.

Steve,

If you can get us on a great place to hunt, I can bring 28-gauge guns, shells, and a bird dog!! Don't have a Praker Bros. 28-gauge though!!

Dave

I'll jump on that wagon also. Two Parker 28's and a good bird dog, and lots of shells:bigbye:

Here's a 28 Ga. ,OO Frame I have at Brad Bachelders ,getting a little polishing up done on her ,can't wait to get her back home ! And a 410 ,OOO Frame ,BHE Runge Upgrade . Russ

I'm feeling light headed, and it's not the Vicodin.

russ you get tired of lookin at them old guns just sendem my way.... charlie

Ed ,It's a good thing you're sitting down !:rotf:

Good Morning Charlie ,I already sent you one :whistle:,which would you like ?:rotf:

Not what I read, but I may be wrong. If I recall correctly my source, which was one of the new Parker gun books, reported that Parker made the first
28. Did they invent the loading and then make the first guns for that gauge? Not sure, but that's how I recall it, but I'm not going to go to the mattresses over the issue.

Parker Bros. was the first American company to offer a 28 gauge double gun.

Just for the sake of arguement, without going to the mats, here is some basic information from 2006... http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...8619&view=next


But please read all of the posts and seperate the wheat from the chaff for yourself.

I had posted this in a thread on the Off Topic Forum but it fits better here.
James

Wow! Thanks to all of you. I love all those small bores.

I just made this post on the shotgunworld thread from 2006, titled "Who invented the 28 gauge?" which is pretty interesting reading. "Recent research shows that the first order for a Parker 28 gauge was placed on February 6, 1900. The order was for five 28 gauges for Shoverling, Daly, and Gales in New York. I still think the H&R exposed hammer double 28 gauge probably predates the Parker 28 gauge." The provided link for that thread seems to have been skewed by my post, but it is available in the "Shotguns, General" subforum on shotgunworld.com.

The only listing of the little H & R 28-gauge hammer double I've found was in the 1912 SD&G catalogue --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...GCatalogue.jpg

The Remington Arms Co. Model 1893 single barrel was being offered in 10-, 12-, 16-, 20, 24-, and 28-gauge in their 1899 catalogue.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...1Catalogue.jpg

In their April 1897 catalogue the Model 1893 was only offered in 12-, 16- and 20-gauge.

OK, so we somewhat eliminate H&R from the first double 28 race. Where does Parker fit in if Greener predated Parker in the UK? I think that it is very unlikely that Parker Brothers was first to manufacture a 28 gauge breechloader if the Greener claim is correct. Is it important to identify the first 28 gauge double gun in the US? If it isn't H&R, who is it?

Parker Brothers me thinks....:)

OK, you win. February 6, 1900, first Parker order, probably the first US made double guns. I tried my best to find an 1899 order but couldn't do it. The serial numbers of the first guns are in the Parker Pages article. Austin's serial numbers mentioned in the article are the first numbers in the stock books, which are not the first guns made or ordered. The stock books that include the first 28 gauge guns are "missing".

There is a nice little American hammer 28 coming up in one of the auctions soon. I can't remember where I saw it, but it may have been Kull's (Armsbid.com)

I don't think so. It would be fun for one collector's group to be able to stake that claim but it probably doesn't matter otherwise.

We have transgressed fron the 410 to the 28, is that like changeing from a Blonde to a Redhead? Just checking as I try to stay current on all the popular Porn sites:biglaugh:

Dean, you discovered one of my well known errors in posting. I meant to post "It is important to identify the first 28 gauge double gun in the US." I guess it is Parker unless we can find an earlier H&R offering.

I think the more important fact is that Parker Bros. did not "invent the 28 gauge".