HOW RARE ARE 8 GUAGE PARKERS ?
 

I was reading the post about the 8 ga parker. Has anyone shot these cannons? Just how rare are they?

I've shot 8 gauge guns from several makers, and even a couple 4 gauge guns. They're scarce but they're out there, quite a few guys on the forum have one. I've owned half a dozen 8 gauges, but never a Parker oddly enough.

Cannon is a strong word really, you can buy 12 gauge shells today that are loaded a lot heavier than the 8 gauge shells of yesteryear. The guns themselves are usually pretty big and heavily built because that was the fashion of the time for a large bore shotgun. I've never seen a factory 8 gauge shell loaded with anything heavier than a 1 1/2 ounce charge. I shoot those out of 12 gauge guns pretty regular.


DLH


Destry

In a chat with another PGCA member today, he was looking at Puglisi's website and said they have currently listed 7 Parker 8 bore guns for sale.

I went through the tables in The Parker Story and counted about 360 8-gauges, so they are rarer than the .410-bores.

they are rare but seldom used as a shooter on acount of the weight...they were the longrange guns of yester year but today have took a back seat to the modern 12 and 10 ga...they are still used legally to hunt duck and other water fowl in a lot of places in europe... the 8 ga could be and is loaded in modern days with more shot and powder than the 12 and the 10 but is not legal to hunt water fowl in the U S...i also shoot a old 8 ga that is a parker i ve shot a few crows squirls one coyte a deer with buckshot a few turkeys with another old 8 ga loomis...there fun guns to qwn and shoot and because of there weight factor they do not kick very bad a magnum 12 ga will kick a lot more than my old parker and ive fired up to a 3 ounce load through the old loomis 8ga....but i mostly keep my loads at 1 1/2 ounce to 2 ounce of shot which is a pleasant load to shoot...its been a hoot for me and the ole 8.....charlie

well thanks for the info guys. I will check out that website. How hard is it to find shells for them?

Most eight gauge shooters load their own. Having someone like Tom Armbrust load for you is quite expensive. However, that may be a good solution if you only need a box or two.

bill i tried peeling some of those remington hulls today worked like a charm...but the 8 ga winchester hull is one piece brass they will not peel..the winchester hull i tried was one of them clear see thru jobs... but i have found a new and cheap way to press those hulls down to fit our guns.. i was looking in my pliers box for the needle nose pliers and saw a old set of car battery totin pliers ther about 12 inches in lenth...i tried using them but did not notice a couple little studs made inside of the head of pliers...used my small air operated cut ting tool and took care of those little dimples...you have to rotate the hull by hand as you squeeze the pliers...it takes about 30 secounds to squeze the brass and i did not get in a hurry timed myself with a watch... theresults are good and the brass still looks ok..it does not look as factory astom arbrust brass but it goes in the gun fine..and i fierd the hull up to 10 times with no problems... dont remember what i gave for these pliers butno more than 10.00 dollars...very little effort is required onsqueezing...remember these are car battery toting pliers...if i get a chance ill try to get some pictures of the pliers...ive solved the problem for myself on these old 8 ga hulls..believe some of you other fellas can make them work for you...but if i could get myself a one piece dye for ten bucks or less id probly get one but for now the pliers are tops...i only had the clear winchester hull to try this on was out of the remys... charlie

This REM-UMC topwad shows a typical load, which is also the heaviest smokeless load as per the 1911 WRA Co. catalog. The other smokeless loads carry 1-1/2 ounces of shot. The same 1911 catalog lists a black powder load with 7 drams of powder and 2 ounces of shot.

ive got some ofthese same loads....wonder why they loaded the black powder heavier.... i bet that black powder load was rough on the shoulder... charlie

Here is a pre-1912 loading.....

I have looked through some of my old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues, and find their 8-gauge shells were only offered loaded with bulk smokeless powder or black powder. I don't find any 8-gauge loadings with dense smokeless powders.

In 1903, 04 and 05, UMC's 8-gauge shell was the "Trap" shell, green in color. Bulk smokeless powder loads were --

5 drams with 1 1/2 ounces of shot
5 1/2 drams with 1 3/4 ounce of shot
6 drams with 2 ounces of shot.

In black powder loads they offered --

5 drams with 1 1/2 ounces of shot
5 1/2 drams with 1 3/4 ounces of shot
6 drams with 2 ounces of shot
6 1/2 drams with 2 ounces of shot
6 1/2 drams with 2 1/4 ounces of shot
7 drams with 2 ounces of shot
7 drams with 2 1/4 ounces of shot.

None of these catalogues mention the length of the shell these loads are put up in. UMC's primed empty 8-gauge paper shell, equivalent to the "Trap" shell, was headstamped "Expert" and was offered in 3 1/4 inch length for $25 per thousand, and 3 1/2 to 4 inch lengths for $28 per thousand.

By 1910, the "Trap" and "Expert" were gone and the 8-gauge offerings were in the "Arrow" shell, Salmon color. Bulk smokeless powder loads offered were listed as being in a 3 1/4 inch case --

5 drams with 1 1/2 ounces of shot
5 1/2 drams with 1 3/4 ounces of shot.

There was no offering of loaded extra length 8-gauge shells.

Black powder loads offered were --

5 drams with 1 1/2 ounces of shot
6 drams with 1 3/4 ounces of shot
7 drams with 2 ounces of shot.

The "Arrow" primed empty 8-gauge shells were stamped HANDLOADED on the side and were offered in 3 1/4 inch length for $25 per thousand and the 3 1/2 to 4 inch lengths for $28 per thousand, and all carried the notation "bulk powder only."

Adding to the above, through the 1915-16 Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogue the 8-gauge offerings remain the same as 1910. By the 1918-19 Rem-UMC catalogue the primed empties are only offered in 3 1/4 inch length, the black powder loads remain the same, but bulk smokeless is only the 5 1/2 drams 1 3/4 ounce load.

Anyone know the going rate for a Parker 8 gauge? I would eventually like to get one for my collection.

That's interesting information on the loadings. I've looked at the overshot card on every factory loaded 8 gauge shell I've ever seen and none have been any heavier than 1 3/4 or 1 1/2. I'd like to have a 2 ounce or a 2 1/4 for my collection.


Destry

Mills, that's like asking the going rate on a Parker, sometimes you can find and 8 ga for $7,000 or $8,000 in fair condition and then up up up :shock:

Good point and I have noticed there is a wide variation of prices.

How many eight gauge Parkers have you seen to have noticed a "wide variation" in prices? Remember, asking prices are not "prices", they are dreams. What variation have you seen in selling prices?

http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=867

http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=1438

http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=1440

http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=1437

Here are a few for sale.

http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=2318

The coat of varnish may be hiding a decent gun! Good luck in your quest. Cheers!

All right. That answers my question. Nice guns too, by the way. Actually, I was referring to the wide variety of prices of Parkers in general. I had not seen any 8 gauges for sale, until just now.

theres some cheaper ones out there...may not look as good as these but wouldbe shooters...and old english made 8 ga makes a good shooter and will not cost what a parker does but i do like the parker the best... charlie

I had a windfall recently to where I could have bought one of the less pricey "English best" guns, but decided I would rather have Parkers. Something about them being American made.

My first double was a W.W. Greener I still have . Then I got hung up on Parker's and Fox guns .
Now I'm kinda open to Parker's , Fox's , english guns , some of the german guns , Remington or Krieghoff 32's and Browning Superposed .

Heck I have and old Ithaca 10 gauge we've owned for about 35 years and never fired . This one has fluid steel barrels and has been redone when my pop first bought it . Think this week it'll get a go on the trap range for fun !

A Parker 8 gauge and 10 gauge are high on my want list . However I'd like both to be hammerless .

Incidently with Parker 8's which are more rare ? Exposed hammer guns or hammerless ?

Craig the information you seek is in The Parker Story, but it is not compiled in one paragraph. You have to either add up all the eights in the Grades section or separate the hammer from the hammerless in the list of eights in the Appendix.

There are a few loaded and some NPE 8-gauge shells in the now running Wards Auction. I believe I noted both a 5 dram 1 1/2 ounce and a 5 1/2 dram 1 3/4 ounce Arrow shells in the auction.

i seen these too but im like destrey i want the 2 ounce or 2 1/4....im looking at the 4 bores....but thr 8 ga trat load empty box is the prize in my book.... charlie

I've collected or accumulated a few shotshells over the last 30-40 years . And while I have a couple 8 gauge shells (both industrtial) . The center piece of my shell collection would have to be the two unopened boxes of Winchester "Repeater" 28 gauge !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells001.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells002.jpg

Second would have to be the opened and almost full box of REM/UMC Nitro Club 28 gauge !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells003.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells004.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells005.jpg

And last but not least a full but opened box of Winchester "Repeater" 20 gauge !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells006.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells007.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells008.jpg


I have singles of the Winchester Repeater in 12 and 16 gauge along with some Winchester "Nublack" 10 gauge . But I always thought full unopened boxes were the neatest !

Incidently , I've owned the three boxes of 28's for about 25 years . And I just noticed something tonight I wasn't aware of !

The Winchester boxes are not the same shot size as I had always assumed they were !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells009.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells002.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...eShells010.jpg

Even though something may be in front of your face in plain view for many many years one can almost always learn or discover something new that had been available to them for years !

They are wonderful boxes. 28 gauge stuff is so rare. When I was released from military service in 1969, I returned home and immediately started haunting the local gun stores. I visited "The Sportsman" in Bethesda, Maryland. My first "find" was a minty cased Westley Richards bar in wood eight gauge with two unopened boxes of Remington Arrow 1 3/4 ounce loads, one BB and one #2 enclosed in the original trunk case. I succumbed to the offer to sell the shells for about what I paid for the gun. I accepted $500 for the two boxes of shells from a midwest ammo collector. What a mistake that was. I wish I had those two boxes of shells today. I have had a chance to buy another similar box within the past ten years, but did not take advantage. I have also seen a full wood case of these shells advertised in a collectors publication, but they were sold when I responded to the ad. I have never seen such an item for sale since, even an empty wood box.

look at the TRAP LOAD box of 8 ga on wards auctions its only got 2 empties in it but its the rarest thing ive seen in a while...wish i could afford it .... charlie

My friend who has the AHE 10 gauge we were looking at several weeks ago also has a wooden .410 case at his cabin. It now holds electrical and plumbing stuff

charlie, can you provide a link to the wards auction you are refering to?

John,

The .410 cases are scarce but nothing in rarity compared to the 8 gauges ones. I've owned a couple .410 ones over the years, I've only ever SEEN one 8 gauge and it wasn't for sale.


Destry

Uff da! My shotshell collection is comprised of UMC/REM-UMC/Remington/Peters and WRA Co./Western. I do not have many 8s or 4s. Decent specimens command high prices! Bidding on the online auction sites can get pretty wild, too.

I've got some 8 gauge stuff but my 4 gauge collection consists of exactly one factory loaded UMC shell. You can get the primed empty stuff on occasion, but factory loaded is tough and that's the only way I collect them.

DLH

Could anyone here tell me approximately what two 4 gauge loaded shells would be worth?
One is high brass, red paper marked "1901 No 4 LEADER"
The other is high brass, green paper marked "WINCHESTER No 4 METAL LINED"

Best Regards, George

Check the online auctions, they turn up sometimes. They bring different prices, it just depends on who's bidding that day. There's no set value for this sort of thing, no book you can look it up in.


DLH


P.S. If the gun you've got them for is worth $40,000 then they must be worth $1000 each.

Are the topwads factory printed with load info? If not, they are handloads. the '1901' series of WRA Co. shells were NPEs for handloading. I do not have all the WRA Co. catalogs, but mine are quite specific about the use of the '1901' headstamp. I will do some research for you.