Grade 7 Pigeon Gun
 

I have a grade 7 hammerless pigeon gun made from witworth fluid steel. it's an awesome gun in shop table condition but very worn otherwise. It's missing the buttplate and it's from my great grandfather. Made in 1897 I believe serial number 87449. Curious about restoration and value and all. I was told this site was better to talk to for this and appreciate the help. Also please tell me what pictures would be best such as close up of gold shield etc.

#87,449 is a Grade 7 gun. Any and all pictures would contribute to a reply evaluating its worth on today's market.

Ill get pictures up next post, and i dont really want to sell it. But even though i plan on keeping it i still dont want to hurt the value.

Pictures (close as possible and in focus) should include the butt stock, the end of the buttstock, all sides of the receiver, the flats of the receiver, the forend, the bottom of the barrel flats including the lug, the rib inscription, and the end of the rib where it meets the end of the barrels (looking down from the top.) Also take an accurate measurement of the barrel length.

Your one lucky guy to have such a gun and a family heirloom to boot!

Yes, pictures please. If you have a grade 7 Parker, you need to join the PGCA.

Im almost done with the pictures but i think a fairly rough measurement of the barrel length is 28.5 inches.

Here are some of the pictures:

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0645.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0656.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0657.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0658.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0664.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0697.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0698.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0699.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0701.jpg

Here are the rest, let me know if i did something wrong, im relatively new to guns so i may have taken the wrong pictures

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0696.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0695.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0694.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0689.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0687.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0688.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0680.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0681.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0682.jpg

Its in ruff shape..

Do you have pics of the muzzle end?

PS. Get a research letter. You say it's in rough shape but I think it looks awesome.

What is a research letter? And you mean like this?

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0707.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMG_0706.jpg

:crying::crying::crying:

My goodness... I've never seen such a high grade Parker so neglected.

I'm glad you care about that gun... someone before you didn't.

It should be restored. It will be quite expensive but it should be restored.

Did I say it will be expensive? In any case, it should be restored.

If you have it restored properly it will be worth about 4X - 5X the price of restoration.

Except for the cut barrels it is a perfect candidate for restoration.

Where do you live Stephen? We can recommend experts in the field of restoring such a high grade Parker as yours.

Well it was my great grandfathers, the weird thing is why he acquired such a nice gun, he loved hinting but still he was relatively poor and born a few years before the gun was made... O i wish someone would have asked him the story. How much is it really worth, 5,000?

P.S. I live in Florida, around the city of Port Orange or Daytona Beach if that is better know to you. Also what is the length supposed to be?

I would guess, in that condition, probably around $5K. It needs a lot of work to bring it back to its former glory... and it was a glorious Parker!! Very desirable but...

Another one who lucked out... Someone who doesn't know much about guns, let alone Parkers gets passed down an AAH Pigion Gun. I think that your $5k estimate is low. Maybe not for the condition it is in, but surely after any quality restoration. Just to give you an idea, The book value for this in Good to Very good condition (which it would be if a top notch restoration is done) is $18k-$25k. Fair Condition is $10k. And Poor is $1,000. I would call this one between poor and Fair.

It would be very interesting for you to learn where your great grandfater got the gun from considering that this would have been a VERY expensive gun when it was new.

It's worth a bit more than 5k and it may cost close to that amount to have it properly restored. You've got a real gem.

Probably the most important thing after determining that the barrel wall thickness and condition of the bores doesn't sound the death knell on it is to have the metal work, e.g. the pitted ribs, pitted and worn frame etc., restored and reengraved by an expert in this field (we can name a few) and then finished properly before the wood issues are addressed.

Ed, it will cost a bit more than $5K to restore that gun properly, IMHO.

Like I said im positive he didnt get it new, and he didnt have money, just knew he went hunting at least once a week more likely more lol Anyhow I cant wait to get it restored but im young and dont have that kind of money, one day i would love to, but i dont want someone to mess it up so when the time comes id rather pay up.

Anyone have any idea how the engraving on the receiver would get so worn? Would normal hunting cause so much wear? I can understand the rib matting and lettering being buffed down when reblueing but the wear on the receiver is extreme.

Stephen a research letter will give you information from factory records which are available for your gun. Go to the PGCA Home page and click on the Research Letter link and follow the directions. More than likely, it will tell you who bought the gun new and any subsequent returns for repair.

Brian
I think a lot of high end parker's get handed down. I had two handed down to me both broken a Trojen 12 gauge and a AHE 28 both with broken stocks. I still haven't been able to get the 28 fixed. That's a story for another thread.

I will get on that research letter. But all of you parker admirers would you restore the gun? And than what? I would love to use it a little, but wouldnt want to hurt it.

I have a Grade 7 Skeleton Steel Buttplate in very nice condition that I will part with for your gun for tha price I paid for it... with the stipulation that your gun will have been restored to the point that it awaits the fitting of a SSBP.

That is beautiful, where did that come from?

It came from a Grade 7 about two or three years younger than yours. It was in somebody's "Old Gun Parts" drawer until I was lucky enough to buy it in May this year.

Does an insert fit into the space that will still be there? I cant wait to restore it but it may be some years from now, im too young to have that sort of capital. Would you use it if you had restored it or before restoring it? And is there a temporary buttpad so i could shoot it?

P.S. I think the barrel is 29 inch, is it supposed to be 30?

The wood in the 'space' would have been checkered as in this next picture. Your skeleton steel buttplate was removed and a rubber recoil pad was installed. The rubber is gone but the plastic or hard rubber base plate of the pad is still there. There is a remote chance that the checkering is still under that base plate but I doubt it.

As long as the condition of the barrels are safe to shoot and they are not 'off face' of the frame I would think it is safe to shoot.


.

Stephen,

Welcome to the Parker Gun Collectors Association and the Parker Forum. You have a fantastic family heirloom. You should consider joining the PGCA along with ordering a research letter on your gun. The membership will be well worth the $40 and the cost of research letters is lower for members.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/payments.php

Good luck and I do hope you will consider joining.

Steven,
I'm not sure you received an answer to your question. The serialization book lists this gun with 30" barrels and a straight grip stock. The barrels have been cut but the pistol grip stock looks original and is most likely an error in the book. A PGCA letter might show a factory replacement stock and perhaps the barrel trimming.

I plan on joining today, and also sending the letter for the research letter. The full restoration will probably have to wait untill im out of collage, my dad doesnt take as much of interest in the gun. But did anyone know someone capable of doing the work around in florida?

There are only a very small number of gunsmiths in the US one would entrust an AAH Parker to for a restoration, a very small number. Don't worry about where they are. BTW, last year a very worn AAH was sold by a major dealer to a another dealer. The price listed on the gun was $10K. It was for sale for but a few days. I believe it brought that. While it did not have cut barrels, it did have a lot wrong with it. I suspect your gun would bring a similar amount, as is. If you do not have the resources to properly "restore" the gun just keep it clean and lightly oiled and stored in a dry spot (especially in a FL summer). Were it my gun, it would have a set of 30 inch "replacement" barrels on it within the week. Best of luck with it.

Probably not in Florida. I can think of three such experts here in the Northeast and I hope they're still doing it when you are out of college and ready to take on the task financially.

Stephen,

Congrats on the wise decision to become a PGCA member. I hope you will find that shooting and owning a Parker shotgun is one of the great joys in your life. I'm 32 and have been a PGCA member since I was in college as well. Now I'm on the board of directors!

Best of luck with your gun. I am sure you have gotten several offers to buy it by now. It is really a treat to see such a high grade gun with workmanship like the one you have. It is a treasure.

I have not had any offers, not many know about it anyways, just this forum and my local gun shop. And yes i hope the experts are still around too but i guess in some time i may be back on this forum asking who the experts are, in the meantime ill just enjoy it how it is. And "replacement barrels?" Why would i want to replace an original part? Anyhow should i trust my local shop when they said i can shoot it? And Chilled Shot where are they, as in the state? And also how much does it cost to replace the missing buttstock, the steel part? Thank you all for being so helpful!

Let me guess, your local gun shop offered you $500 or something for it. lol. I know of a few that might do such a thing.

As long as the bores are not in VERY bad shape by way of HEAVY pitting, and the ribs are not separated, shoot away. Try to stay away from shells over 3 dram equ. or buy some low pressure RST loads and you will be ready to go. Would not hurt to have a competant gunsmith look at the barrels if you do not know what to look for.

To check for loose top or bottom ribs, apart from looking at them... Hang the barrels off your finger and knock at them in a few places with your nuckle. You should get a nice "ring" tone out of them. That tells you that everything is tight and "One" piece. If it sounds like more of a dull clang, then you have a rib loose.

The witworth steel was Parkers highest quality steel offered and was imported from Europe. So they are by all means up to snuff to todays standards on even cheap guns. That is if they are in good condition.

Am I correct in saying that this AAH was made before the first A-1 Special was made?? I do not have my reference material handy.

So, basically at the time of manufacture, this gun may have been the Finest that Parker had to offer.

I think that is true, or at least someone said so, and the shop didnt even ask to buy it or offer anything. Probably because i said it was sentimental and they seem like good people. A gunsmith had looked at it, he is older and i asked him just to put some light oil on it and clean it a little. He didnt do much he said because he said it was a valuable gun and he didnt want to ruin its value or add a butt stock or anything. He knew it was special before i did.

What a great gun. It was a very expensive gun new and I'm glad some got their monies worth! IMHO, the only way to restore it is to bring it back to original factory condition. Anything else would probably be a waste of money, ie not increase it's value. That would be very expensive. Far more then the $5000 estimate. Based on what engraving are charging today, picking up the engraving on this gun would probably exceed $5000! Just keep it safe and do it right when you have the cash. Good luck.

Best, Ray

Yes I will do so, ill keep on this forum and maybe about four years from now ill put some before and after pictures, that would be nice. For now i think ill shoot it a little, too tempting not too.

Stephen, one of them lives in Connecticut and the other in southeastern Massachusetts. They're getting along in years and may not be in the business in four years but who knows... maybe they will be. The tricky part that requires an expert is welding up the pitted and excessively worn areas and then reengraving them to look exactly as when it left the factory.