10 Gauge Magnum
 

Hello, again! I just acquired a few Western 10 gauge shells of the 3-1/2" configuration. They are headstamped 'WESTERN / RECORD' and have the following nomenclature on the red paper hull: 'Western 3-1/2 INCH MAGNUM SUPER X' along with 'LONG RANGE LOAD / USE ONLY IN GUNS WEIGHING 10-1/2 POUNDS OR MORE, WITH 3-1/2 INCH CHAMBERS AND MODERN STEEL BARRELS'. The topwad indicates a load of '4L' shot. The 'L' means 'Lubaloy', which is Western's name for their copper plated shot. I would imagine it is a 2 ounce payload. Western catalogs (or reprints) are not common. I wish I knew more about this shell. I recall 1922ish being the time when this 3-1/2" shell came about. A collaboration between John Olin and Ithaca? Are there many Parker 3-1/2" chambered 10s?

No, there aren't many Parkers made to shoot those shells, nor are there many of those Lubaloy shells out there. Do you have boxes of those shells or just a few individual shells? I am not much of a shotgun shell collector, but I would be interested in some Lubaloy tens.

Somewhere, I read an article by Alex Kerr and he talked about a AHE or AAHE in 10 magnum that he had and had shot.This would have been in the late 60's or early 70's,maybe in Sports Afield. I always have wondered if this is a "known" gun.

The Ithaca Magnum-Ten with 3 1/2 inch chambers and the Western Cartridge Co. 3 1/2 inch Magnum-Ten cartridge were introduced in 1932.

The Western Cartridge Co. Super-X load, introducing progressive burning powders to North American shotgun shells, were introduced in 12- (1 1/4 ounce) and 20-gauge (1 ounce) in 2 3/4 in Western "Field" shells in 1922. In 1923, Western added the Super-X 16-gauge 1 1/8 ounce load in a 2 9/16 inch "Field" shell and the 1 3/8 ounce 12-gauge Super-X load in a 3-inch "Record" shell. I use the term "load" because that is what Super-X originally was, a progressive burning powder load put up in either Western's already existing "Field" low brass or "Record" high brass shells. During the mid-1930s, as the use of the older bulk and dense smokeless powders waned Western Cartridge Co. began phasing out the "Field" and "Record" names and Super-X became their high-brass shell and Xpert their low-brass shell. I have two 10-gauge 3 1/2 inch Super-X shells in my collection. The earlier one is the Super-X load in a Record shell and the later one is a Super-X shell. Both have the paragraph on the side of the paper tube -- "LONG RANGE LOAD / USE ONLY IN GUNS WEIGHING 10-1/2 POUNDS OR MORE, WITH 3-1/2 INCH CHAMBERS AND MODERN STEEL BARRELS."

Great info! Thanks. I have examples of both the 'RECORD' and 'FIELD' headstamped 'SUPER-X' shells in my collection. Info on Western ammunition is virtually non-existant.

Actually there are a series of wonderful little booklets on Western Super X shotshell ammunition by the reknown Chas. Askins, Sr. and illustrated by the equally well know Lynn Bogue Hunt. They are often on eBay (see 370546353089). I have 3 different editions of them. Very informative with data both detailed and ancedotal like most of Askins stuff.:corn:

It seems that I have found a boatload of Western Cartridge Co. paper beginning with the Super-X booklet of 1922 that covered just the 2 3/4 inch 12- and 20-gauge loads. I have ten different editions of their booklet Super-X The Long Range Load by Capt. Chas. Askins. The earliest is undated with a grey cover, then a grey cover with a 5-28 date. Then a cream cover with green printing dated 4-30. Then a cream cover with blue printing dated 2-31, the first to include the 2 7/8 inch 28-gauge Super-X shell. Then a blue cover with green and dark blue printing dated 2-32. Then back to cream color with maroon printing dated 11-32. Then another blue cover with green and dark blue printing dated 2-33. Then another cream with maroon printing dated 11-33, the first one I have that includes the 3 1/2 inch Magnum-Ten and the 3-inch .410-bore shell. Then two more cream with maroon printing dated 11-34, and 10-35. Beginning in 1937, Western Cartridge Co. began putting out a Western Ammunition Handbook. There are many editions of this booklet from the 1st edition which appears to be 1937 to the 16th edition dated October 1951. The 6th edition, which appears to be 1940,introduces the Super-Seal crimps. Throw in a dozen or so of their ammunition price lists, and one gets a pretty good picture of what they were offering when. Several editions of the Super-X the Long Range Load and the Western Ammunition Handbook seem to be regularly offered on ebay.

I have found Western Cartridge Co. paper from before the introduction of the Super-X load to be virtually non-existant.

I checked Cornell Publications for Western. They list a few catalogs from 1927 to the late 30s. Indeed, E-bay has a few listed, also.

I've got some Lubaloy loaded stuff in paper and plastic but I've been looking a long time and don't have much. Bill doesn't need anymore, he has a full case of 12 gauge.

Destry

12 gauge 3" 1 3/8 oz of coppered 4s addressed to Marse Henry, no less:shock: another treasure lost in the Murphy Hoarding Complex:rotf: which looks like the warehouse in the scene at the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark"

I remember the day old Perry Hooker dropped by the shop and gave me a few boxes of some new shells and a big Fox gun with request from the Big Boss to take them to Wapanocca and try them out...:rolleyes:

This is the stuff --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...X3-inch4Ls.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...-X3-inch4s.jpg

Would be better if a two-piece box though.

In the 1935 edition of the booklet, Capt. Askins tells the story of the development of the 3 1/2" Magnum 10g and modestly (not always an Askins family trait..) gives all the credit to Lou Smith and Spencer Olin (John's brother) for the development. He notes that Spencer designed the shell and load himself. The patterning tables in the piece show some very,very tight patterns. Askins, Sr, is one of my heros as he often states that 1 duck taken cleanly at 60 yards on the pass is worth 15 (the then Federal limit) taken over the decoys. I couldn't agree more (Destry disputes this philosophy vehemently preferring his ducks with wet toenails...). The Ithaca 10g Magnum is a worthy gun but even modern 1 7/8 oz non-tox loads are not the equal of the old 2 oz of hard lead in the Super X.

how did the shells and big fox work out on that trip.... charlie

Well, that was Nash Buckingham from his story "Are We All Shooting Eight Gauge Guns?" when he recounts the time Mr. Hooker who was a rep for Western Cartridge Co. as well as a reknown duck call maker, came into NB's sporting goods shop in Memphis and dropped off some prototype Super X loads and a pre-production A.H. Fox HE at the behest of his boss (and later Nash's) John Olin. According to Nash, they worked out very well! So the legend of Becker, Askins, Olin and the big Fox and Super X partnership began. Below a Perry Hooker call worth about 3 Fox HEs...:eek:

beautiful call.. if it callsas good as it looks ducks should fall from the sky.....espically ifyour totin wanna those big tens loaded with the lubaloy shot... charlie

It would be my luck to have the barrel separate from the stopper while in the marsh (it's happened to most of us, I suspect) and the value would become zero pretty quickly

I have a 10g, G grade, 3 frame, 32," FF, 'that was hogged out to 3.5". I've "proofed" it with a bunch of modern ammo - no problems. It's fun to shoot but hell to haul around.

Dear Mr. Gunn- It would behoove you to measure the barrel wall thicknesses of your re-chambered gun at the end of the chambers. Merely shooting some normal cartridges in it is not "proofing" as your use of italics shows you know. There is surprisingly little "meat' in many 3 frame 10 bore Parkers (I've owned a lot of them). Funnily enough, in Capt. Askins' Western Cartridge Co. booklet, he specifically noted the Western states that existing 10g guns should not be re-chambered for Super X 3 1/2" shells. If you want to make a Magnum out of a 3 frame have a set of modern steel barrels made for it like some good soul did to this G grade hammer gun I have:cool: (bottom in the photo-actually "proofed" in the Liege proofhouse) Best of luck with your gun and please be careful

Parker Chamber
 

The hinge pin is 2 3/4 inches from the breech. Barrels can thin quickly forward of that point.

Best, Austin