Parker Steam Engines
 

Does anyone have any knowledge of the steam engines built by Parker ? I've collected full sized steam engines for 50 years and have never run across one.

I don't know of any existing. But if you find one, maybe bring it for display at the next PGCA meeting?

As I've yet to see one, I spose I don't have to start worry about how to get it there, but if I did, it might be easier to bring the meeting to them.

They look great.
 

There are two major steam engine festivals held in MI each year, one in Buckley (near Traverse City) and one in Barry County (Hastings) at the Charlton Heston Memorial Park- the later one usually in July. You might try a google search and see if any of the principals who put on these shows can lead you to a Parker Steam engine-- Right now, after a garage sale/barn sale in Barry Co. this past week, I am debating about buying a Parker & Snow 4": Machinist's vise-- has a small section that had cracked from the rear bolster, if the gent had kept that piece I could braze it back together and make it whole-maybe--

Please note- I spelled it properly here- vise-- a Machinst's VICE (if he was anything like my maternal Great Grandpa and my Grand Pa- would be cigars, Irish whiskey and pounding fists on the work bench when an apprentice "messed up" in his shop-- "I don't give a good rattli" *&^Damn about them tolerances, Boy- you either make it right to print, or don't bother doing the layout with the Dykem-- Harsh taskmasters, yes- but the margin for error factor was not part of my learning years I should say--:whistle::whistle::banghead::nono::bowdown::bowdow n::bowdown:

You better not ever come to Alaska Edgar; you'd need an oil tanker to get all your steam engines, boilers, stationary engines, compressors, etc home.... I know where tons of them are, scattered all over the state from one end to the other.

My son would send me pictures from Barrow, the Fairbanks area, etc, and it made me crazy. Between the old gold mining and remote power units, there's as much iron up there as there is oil.
The boy got off the boat in Homer, when he departed Kodiak, and borrowed a bike (his were being shipped to FL) and met up with a friend in Fairbanks, then rode 150 miles N. of the Arctic Circle. Lasflew to SLC Utah, picked up his Paris-Dakar BMW, and rode it back to Kodiak, 6199 miles. My a$$ was killing me, and I never left the farm.

O&R, I've been to a few of the big Thresherman's Reunions, and it's a sight to see; dozens of magnificent traction engines, still doing what they did 100 years ago and more. I did use the excuse that my wife sort of gave me permission to buy one when she said we needed a garden tractor. I finally sold it as it was sinking in my driveway (18,000 pounds can do that)
I had a 32' steam launch, built in 1892, and kept it on the CT River, and at Mystic seaport for many years. I ended up selling that to Bill Ruger.

I went to a gathering like that in New Zealand many years ago. They mount pcs of loader tire rubber between the steel cleats and drive those coal fired beasts 100mi down the highway to these gatherings. There was something like 26 of them there + a lot of smaller stationary engines, all running. They had a couple running threshers with guys filling and stitching bags. Very fun to see.

Here's a couple of pics to get your blood flowing Edgar. These are engines that were used for power generation at the mine I work at, before the hydro power plant was put in in 1934. I think the smaller FM engine may have been used to power a dredge but was switched to power generation when the dredge was converted to electric. The bigger engine is an FMorse also and is the largest old diesel I've ever seen anywhere in Alaska. I can only imagine that it was originally designed to power a ship. Note that they have the exhaust vented underground; it goes into a water muffler system somehow I think. Note also that for some reason the heads are off both engines, which has left the blocks broken due to freezing. Pity. Someone cut all the copper windings from both these units also but left it laying around. There's hundreds of pounds of it laying around the engines and buildings.

Both of those FM engines are from between the wars (6 spoke flywheels) and the smaller was also built in England up until the mid 50s, to compete with the Ruston (insert 2nd name depending on what week you're talking about) engines.
I was given a Rathbun Jones engine built by Ingersoll Rand in 1905, provided I moved it from the building it was in. The roof removal and replacement, rigging and hauling was prohibitive, and despite the fact that it was older than one the Smithsonian was also acquiring at the same time, it got broken up for scrap.
That generator is a GE and was probably 2300 volt based on the engine speed, and being directly coupled. The exciter alone would power a few houses.
Go find me some Crocker Wheeler bipolar dynamos. I'll drive out for them. Size is all relative.

Great pictures Rich.I think you showed us these before but I enjoyed them just as much the second time.I think steam engines are wonderful especially old steam locomotives. They are as close to a living/breathing machine as you can get!

My sentiments, exactly.
If you're feeling adventurous, make a trip up into the Allagash to see the two abandoned locomotives that were used to haul trees from Chamberlain Lake to Moosehead lake. They were used right up until the early 60s (1960s)

"Between the wars" would be correct for these. They would have been in place prior to 1934 when the hydro was put in place. After that, they ran 2 dredges at the same time on the hydro system, which was run at 800kW with a 1.1mW capability. I'll put in a shot of the generator in the hydro power house, which was used until late in 1989 I think. Pics show the genset, flywheel, and the Pelton wheel housing. The Pelton is fed through a 5ft? diameter wooden pipe with 70ft of fall. Pipe made of incredible clear fir I think, or cedar. I'll add a pic of that and the penstock

Love that old Woodward governor. (Seems we got off Parker steam engines)
70' head isn't much for a Pelton. That's more appropriate for Francis wheels.
I was supposed to go restart a Pelton unit on the N end of Kodiak at the fish cannery, but the guy who bought the place got sidetracked when the oil well blew up in the gulf, spill clean-up or something.
We cast a new Pelton wheel for Newport News Industrial several years ago to replace one taken out by rubble that came down the penstock after an earthquake. As I recall that one had a head height of over 600'.
You would have loved to visit the pump-hydro station out here that contracted me for 64 new wicket gates (32 per, 2 Mitsubishi turbines) The wicket gates were just shy of 7' high, not counting top and bottom shaft, CA6NM stainless, a hair over 3000 pound each. Turbine was horizontal, wheel was nearly 30 diameter. 400MW each. Twin ball valves with 10' bore. Best part was it was all inside a mountain,and radio controlled from 75 miles away.

If it's steam power you want, here's some good ones from my 2008 project. This includes a boiler that I think was never fired, a single-cyl compressor of sorts that was going to be run in reverse by steam, and a lumber planer/edger that was going to be driven by a belt off the large flywheel on the compressor. This stuff originated in Dawson City and was dragged onto this property in the spring of 1937. I think they encountered soft snow and thaw and couldn't get past here and just dumped it and never tried to get it the last mile to the mill area. I first landed on this pile in 1978, my first year working as a geologist in Alaska, and got a very nice brass plate off the boiler, which is on the wall in my outhouse. The heavy copper under my woodstover here in the house came from the mill on this property. I'm sure this compressor, or whatever it's properly called, and the planer could be restored to working condition with minimal effort. This stuff is only 100mi out of Fairbanks.

The drive wheel for the hydro house at the mine isn't a typical cast Pelton wheel. It's a series of steel blades on a spindle inside a steel drum. The 'wheel' unit inside the drum isn't that large. There are real Pelton wheels outside, one the largest I've ever seen, that predate the unit inside. See pic added to the original post. The governor is an interesting unit for sure.

I can clearly see the Ames name on the boiler, but that engine is also an Ames, much older than the boiler. Not unlike one I have. What happened to the crank and flywheels?
That Planer is a gem. Looks like a 4 side.Or maybe it's a lath mill (also known as a stave mill) I wonder if my son could con one of his helo buddies in Kodiak to pick it up.
That looks like great Ptarmigan country.

The engine is all there, flywheel and all. And it's all in good shape if I remember right. The planer has edger blades, seen in the last pic, so it makes lumber in one pass. It's all there too as far as I can tell. Looks like it makes two pieces at once if you want and is adjustable for width. Very nice planer. There's a bunch of spare teeth in a box. Here's a few additional pics. The main steel flywheel is back by Sterling in the brush. The smaller wooden wheel hub is sticking up in the air. Have your buddies park a Huey in my yard and leave the keys in it and I'll fill a good acre or two with stuff like this....

Oswego,NY! I fish for salmon and steelhead in Oswego. Right on the southern shore of Lake Ontario and one hell of a fishing town. Small world that that boiler made it all the way to AK.

And it's never had a fire in it from the looks of the inside. I would have thought it would have been used in Dawson but I guess not. It had to come down he Yukon, up the Tanana to the Delta area and been freighted over 60mi overland. I doubt you wanted tell any of the old guys who did this kind of thing back then that something "couldn't be done"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavari_%28ship%29

Men can do the 'almost impossible' with the means available and enough men and mules.
Lake Titicaca (I still giggle when saying that) is over 2 miles above sea level in Peru. The ship restoration, described in the above link has been an ongoing project for several years. It's original steam plant was removed and replaced with an oil engine. She's up and running now and is one of the nicest examples of 'antique iron' restoration in South America.
That boiler you show is a scotch marine type, return flue. The furnace section appears to have been chopped out from the jagged edges in the photo. The doors, with the builders name above, is actually the back of the boiler.
Richard, I didn't see that last picture (of the turbine) in the group of the hydro plant. That's a Francis type wheel. Interesting as it's a fabricated case instead of a cast iron housing. S Morgan Smith turbines, a company acquired by Allis Chalmers in York, PA built hundreds of Francis turbines. Many are either still in continuous use, or put back into service. The original Collins Axe factory, in Collinsville CT has several and one is operational, except that the state DPUC won't give them a permit to operate, or at least to operate and generate power.

I'm at an obvious disadvantage and obviously have no clue of the difference between a Pelton wheel and others or that there are even others. If I remember correctly, which I may not be, that large fabricated housing has a cast wheel with cups inside that is the same as I've seen in cast housings elsewhere. I've always just called the all Pelton wheels. The drum behind the governor in the top picture has a different type of wheel inside. Very simple set of horizonal steel blades mounted on an axle.

I just looked up a Francis on Wiki: looks like that is what is in that large housing. Can't remember seeing that type when I looked inside but it's been a couple of years. That was originally driven by the wooden flume before it was switched to the inside unit. I'll dig up pics of the powerhouse turbine drum and inside wheel. I have some. The pic of the inside is looking through the turbine wheel assembly and up the flume and doesn't show the wheel well. I think that the blades may have been removed? Can't remember. Here we go: found a pic of the inside of the Francis turbine that my assistant took this past summer.

Re the boiler: I'm not seeing the jagged edges. Not sure what you consider the furnace section but the square opening in the top picture is where the wood/coal fuel went in and was burned. That chamber has a heavy grate in the bottom. For some reason it's stuffed full of short pieces of heavy railroad rail, perhaps intended as spare furnace section grating? It's much heavier than anything that would normally be used at a mine.

Interestingly, last year the mine owner applied for and was actually, MUCH to his surprise, granted an "Obamamoney" grant/loan to get this hydro power system going again, with the idea of selling power to nearby villages. When the powers that be found out that he was a private enterprise they rescinded the loan. What a surprise, eh?

You have a great archive of pictures Richard. The last picture you posted in post #21 is clearly a Francis wheel (also called a runner). A true Pelton, also known as an impulse wheel, has "buckets" that sort of look like cattle watering troughs mounted to a disc, or hub, facing outward. A single nozzle directs the water in a jet-like stream against these buckets.
After looking at the boiler pics again, it appears I was to haste in my assessment that the furnace was cut off. I'm a little surprised they were planning on firing it with slid fuel, with so little tree growth that far North. I would have assumed, probably incorrectly, that oil, even crude, was more plentiful or economical. As a geologist, you'd be the expert there.
You didn't say, but what kind of game would you shoot in that terrain shown in the pics of the steam engine? Ptarmigan and hares? Is that wild blueberry?
Blame Obama, or one of his revolving door czars for the lack of foresight in lending funding for returning old power plant to good use. They would rather put the lives of the native villages dependent on the regular supply of fossil fuels. The cumulative MW amount of plants once considered economically not viable in New England alone far exceeds the output of any single nuclear plant. Once back on-line, the maintenance of the rotating machinery isn't much different than any other power plant.
Back to Parker Steam engines for a moment; did you know Colt also made steam engines? Old Sam bought the patents from Baxter and continued to use his name in the manufacture of pretty little engine-boiler packages. I think it was Baxter who also invented the first practical adjustable wrench.

Oil was not much used at small remote mines like that one back then. This one never really went into production. They found enough local trees to build a mill bldg so I guess they could find enough to power that boiler, at least to run a sawmill and planer. All the old boilers in Alaska were fueled by wood or coal; usually wood. There's also about 80 drums of old heavy fuel oil dating from 1937 laying in the tundra on the other side of the mountain that are slowly leaking into the watershed. Same story; they Cat got stuck in soft ground and they just dumped the bbls short of the mine. I told the state; they weren't even remotely interested in cleaning it up. I had a plan to do so and got company/client approval but time ran out and it never happened. That's a far more depressing set of pictures in my archive. I managed to sling a few drums out and brought one full drum home; the fuel is in perfect condition and set me up with firestarter for life...

The hunting out there includes moose and caribou. Caribou stream by our drills out there all summer. There are also ptarmigan and lots of blueberries.

Didn't know Colt made boilers. I guess if Singer can make Colts, Colt can make boilers!

intersting topics...i too like the old engines of yester year...thanks for the photos.... charlie

Interesting- the cut-up pieces of rail in the grate
 

-- and even more telling is the (empty?) cardboard case of Seagram's 7 Crown atop the boiler- if the crew used that while tending the boiler- well, a beer and a shot is a "boiler-maker"- at least at Sully's just off Canal St.:bigbye:

It was, and still is amongst us that fire these monsters, common practice to use rail track for firebox grates because of the high manganese content.

What type of turbine would you call the one inside the hydro house - the green fabricated drum behind the Woodward?? It dates from the early to mid 80's I think. Not totally sure though, but it's the most recent turbine used at the mine.

"You have a great archive of pictures Richard" - You can't imagine what all I have in that department. Tens of thousands. Gotta love digital cameras with their free electrons + 10,000 Kodachrome slides before that. Anything of Alaska historical interest will eventually end up in the archive at the university here in Fairbanks.

Yes there neet talked to a guy with a case steam engine at a fair wish i could be around when one was tore a part and put back together so i could figure out how they work. He said they get power out of the steam twice.

Richard could you burn the rest of the fuel or would you start a fire?

Francis type. Most likely S Morgan Smith, York, PA. Later made by Allis Chalmers, who bought Smith.

Wow. Thanks for the photos and discussion. This is an unknown subject for me and fascinating. I never cease to be amazed at the talent and knowledge of so many of our Parker people.

Thanks Edgar and Richard. A great OT thread.

Thanks Edgar. Not sure I'll get another chance to look at the hydro house unit to see exactly what the wheel looks like. My impression was that it looked like a paddle wheeler wheel but I could have missed something in there. I bet there's a Francis-type wheel off to the right where it goes out of the drum.

Calvin: I use that old diesel in my wood stove for firestarter. If I had an old Cat dozer I'd burn it in there. It's more like marine diesel than anything; very thick.

Here's a few more pics of a stationery engine used for power generation and some of the old cats at a silver mine on the Seward Peninsula at Omilak. The first freighting trip into this mine was in 1879 if you can believe that. 20yrs before the Nome gold rush and has seen activity into at least the middle 80's and is still owned by a friend of mine. This place is 90 miles northeast of Nome in the headwaters of the Fish River. This is about the best stationery engine I've seen in Alaska and could easily be restored to running condition. They generated power and ran a belt driven sawmill with it. The orange Allis Chalmers dozers could likely be gotten going in a few hours. The little Cat 22 is in excellent shape. These are very common in remote mine areas and were used for freighting in supplies and never had blades. There's hundreds of them scattered around Alaska; the Seward Pen is littered with them. Note that the pads are in near 100% condition. The square holes cut in the center were made to let snow out so that it didn't pack up on the rails and force the tracks off the front idler. These days we cut these holes round because the square corner holes tend to crack. This was a great spot to visit. Very remote with a brushy old airstrip.

When this thread finally comes to an end it will not be because I run out of pictures I assure you. I've spent 33yrs accumulating them. This is but a small sampling. I love this old stuff!

Keep going Rich....I love these old pictures...:)

That isn't, by chance, Jim Tweto's suoer cub in that picture?
This thread started of looking for Parker steam engine info, but seems to have morphed into an Off Topic thread. The moderator can move it to OT if he deems fit. Hope none of the PP (Protocol Police) are too upset.
I have a lot of pictures but I'll be damned if I can access them since getting all the old stuff moved to this new computer. I have a lot more in the old format, remember when we went to the drug store to pic them up?
My old traction engine was a Peerless, but not unlike Case of that era. What the guy may have meant when he said the steam was used twice, was possibly in reference to the biggest of the Case engines that were tandem compound engines, where the steam exhausted from the high pressure cylinder into a larger, low pressure cylinder, then the steam would further expand, apply force on that piston. Large marine steam plants were multi cylinder engines where the steam went through many expansions as it passed from HP (smallest) to IP (sometimes 2 intermediate cylinders) finally into the LP, being the largest. The power of steam comes from it's expansion as it rapidly leaves the boiler, thru the cylinders. The old train wrecks could blow the whole side of a town away, if the water, under 150-250 PSI is sudden;ly allowed to reach 0 psi. What occupied a few hundred cubic feet, contained in a boiler at pressure, could become several thousand cubic feet if released to the atmosphere.
I only ran 160-180 pis in my steamboat boiler, but when the safety valve was opened, as a matter of procedure, the steam cloud up the escape pipe would go a few hundred feet into the air.
That single cylinder horizontal engine coupled to the dynamo is likely an oil engine (not quite a diesel) an had what was known as "hot tube" ignition, started by heated the tube with a torch, or oil flame. The tube was kept hot after the engine was running. It is likely (I sent the picture to an old engine friend. He's old, and loves old engines, having about 100) It's likely very valuable.
Here's a picture or two of an engine I passed onto an older friend, with the promise it comes back to me when he dies (hopefully before me, and I still have enough to buy it back from his wife) It was built pre civil war, probably 1845-1855, and may have been the oldest I ever had. It was probably the only 'small' engine I truely loved.

Edgar, What would a small steam engine like the one pictured be used for? A boat perhaps?

Superheated water released to atmospheric pressure; instant potential energy to kinetic. Read about the "Sultana" and other riverboat and raiiroad disasters of the 19th and early 20th centuries. We had a serious explosion of a traction engine boiler here at the Medina County fair a few years ago.

That is pretty Edgar. Looks like it cleaned up very nicely. What a jewel. Hope you can get it back someday. That's my PA-12. There's a real treasure laying in the bushes beside that stationery engine - a pile of 100+ pcs of narrow gauge rail that has never been used. The RR club here in Fairbanks would kill for that pile! Wish I could get it to them somehow.

Here's a few pics of the engines on a floating bucket line dredge in Flat, Alaska. Took these on my July 4 trip there this summer. This place is one of the very best places in Alaska to see incredible "rust". This dredge was shut down in 1962 with the idea of leaving it easy to get going again. The large engine is complete and could likely be gotten going in a few hours. I think the smaller engine drives a compressor used to air start the larger engine. This is one of the best preserved dredges in Alaska. The best preserved unit is 3 miles upriver from this one and, having been in operation until just a few years ago, is ready to go with the turn of a single key.

To give an example of the sizes of antique machinery at the 'other' end of the spectrum, here's an 1875 Edward S Clark steam launch engine made in Boston. This engine would have comfortably pushed a launch of 25 to 30 feet, and swing a prop around 16". When you consider the detail that gunsmiths of the same period were required to achieve, this is crude by comparison, but considered by steam nuts, not unlike myself, to be a real find. It's about 2' feet tall and one of the few pieces of my steam stuff my wife lets me keep indoors, occupying a window seat in the den. I took this about 10:30 last night hence the lousy lighting.

Fantastic thread fellows--
 

IMO- this has been the most interesting thread, and with a series of great photos with details about something than is not 100% a Parker shotgun. I think I am on safe ground when I say that the majority of the PGCA membership loves mechanical devices of all types, their history.

Rich- you are 100% right about the square cut (or punched) holes in the treads and stress- a circle or arc distributes stress- segue to early LC Smiths for an example- first series Syracuse guns had a rectangular with 90% corners lug that mated into the receiver slot- later they radiused the front corners to relieve stress--

Old timers trick in welding up a crack or fracture-- from each end of the crack- move about 1/4" back and drill a small pilot hole through the metal- skip and back-step the weld, and weld up the holes last-plus proper pre-heat and post-weld heat wrap to slow down the air cooling--

I think we all owe these PGCA brothers a big stand up round of either: (a) applause, or better yet (2) drinks of their choice for this great thread--and it might lead into a future article for PP- Parker & Snow vises, Parker steam engines-- etc!!:bigbye: