Confused about a Parker gun listed on GB.
 

Seller say's it's a B grade, but the action is marked grade 4 and stamped with a B.


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1135170911

A PGCA letter may give more information, but this seller has always ignored my requests that he provide a letter. This is a two barrel set, Titanic barrels, grade 4. Maybe the Damascus barrels mentioned by the seller were the second set, which would be a rare combination. I have no explanation for the water table markings.

The gun in the gunbroker ad doesn't seem to have a bead around the breech balls. I think a B grade would have the bead. Grades in the Serialization Book are determined by the price mentioned in the order. The order book doesn't neccesarily mention a grade, often only a price. The SB may be right or wrong in calling it a "4".

I would guess that the seller called it a B as the water table stamping afforded him the luxury of an option (B or C) so he elected to call it the higher grade. Lacking the hand filed rib extension and having only 1 dog in the motif it would appear that this is a C.

It appears to be a put-together gun. The receiver is a C grade (Marked C, Single dog, in the serialization book as TI4), the butt stock is a B grade, but with a dogs head butt plate. The barrels are not Titanic, but Vulcan. A letter may explain some of this, or not.

I used to own this gun. It originally was a two barrel set, one being 28" titanic the other was 30" Damascus. Both barrels butchered to 20" inches with the Damascus bbl having 28 gauge briley tubes. It was ordered with a dish head np as per letter. Wood was original to the gun and I fitted Vulcan black to to make it usable

Sorry, Jim, I'm a little light on the "dish head np". Please explain. Do you still have the letter? It has to be interesting, a two barrel set with one Titanic and one Damascus. Edgar, the gun is not marked C. It is marked B with a #4 mark.

Bill, spell correct wen coocoo it's a DHBP

Gave the letter to Mike Jensen when he bought i

Yes, Bill. I never said it was marked C. I can plainly see it is not marked "C", but it is marked 4. Given all receiver attributes of a B missing (Beaded breach ball, TWO dogs) Of the B and the 4, which would you guess is incorrect stamping? Wearing a B Stock does not make it a B.
Am I the only one who sees the Left barrel Very Off-Face

Edgar, you clearly posted "marked C" in the first line of your last post. Jim, that Mike fellow not only won't spring for a letter when it could sell a $4000 gun for him, but he won't even show your letter on gunbroker when he has it in his possession. He has had a gun for several years. About once a year I ask him if I can see a letter on that gun. About once a year, I get no response.

My Bad, you're right, but ordinarily, one would think "4" and "C" were synonymous.

They are synonymous, but this gun is different. However, the Mike guy won't share the letter, even if he doesn't have to pay for it. An interesting gun for sure.

In the recent Guyette & Deeter auction, there was a lessor grade gun with a B grade checkered stock, and if I remember, there was documentation that is was ordered. Maybe on a subsequent return to Parker, but still.....

For $5500, I want to see the letter.

Last time I checked, letters were $40. I think you can request a letter on any serial number, or is that a no no?

Yes, anyone can request a letter.

Records show a $200 gun in 1899 and it's a Quality BH.

As indicated by the B4, it’s obviously a hybrid.:cool:

Are we looking at the same 90681? Serialization book says TI4 with added set of barrels.
Looking closer at the stock, I think it's been re-checkered in a B grade style, but doesn't have fleur di lis, but a drop point, as a C would have. Cheeks 'could be' factory checkered, but with all that's been done, that's a Big ? too.
Calling it a B grade is big stretch to my mind, but $5500 is an even bigger stretch.

The gun is a total mongrel. CH frame and engraving. BH wood, but the a DHBP. Vulcan barrels that are not numbered to the gun and poorly fitted. Frame has both 4 and B stamped on it. A B is a 5 and C a 4. The 4 is a larger stamp than the other markings and looks more recently struck. But Variation in stamping fonts on original guns has been seen. And also errors in marking and stamping. It could have been mis-marked as a B when made at Meriden.

Yes, maybe a letter may shed some light on the stock checkering and buttplate.

For $5500, I would expect a numbers matching gun with original barrels. But that is par for the course on Jensen’s listings.

This gun came from an estate auction in Florida 15 years ago. The grandson of the owner hacked the barrels in an attempt to make a coach gun or whatever. Both sets were hacked off with a hacksaw and noting was salvageable. Kirk Merrington laughed when he saw the pics and said not worth the effort or price. Found the Vulcan bbl on eBay and lo and behold, they went on just like you see them as did the fore end. Killed a dozen or so pheasants with it and sold it. Paid $350.00 plus $100.00 for barrels in 2010 and sold it in 2012.

Yes, same gun

I agree with Brian. The "4" looks like it was stamped yesterday. I can't imagine why anyone would stamp a 4 above a B stamp. I have had enough of asking Mike for a letter on a gun he has for sale. Maybe someone else can ask him. Jim says Mike has the letter.

Bill, you're worse than my wife. When I get back to NJ in a couple of weeks, I'll dig through my stuff and find a copy of the letter.

Bill can request and purchase a letter. Jim, sell it to him for $40. :rotf::rotf::rotf:

I'll send him a picture of it. He likes to send pictures ��������

I think there are more than me who would like to see the letter. And Mike, I have a collection of $40.00 letters on guns that I don't own. Thanks, Jim.

Interesting. So, the 'book' is wrong? Bill, when you get the letter, be sure to post it

Here's the letter for the gun in question

Here ya go Murph.

That letter is bananas.

It appears that was a well used gun.

The letter explains the rubber butt, but not the "4" stamp. Have we seen a B grade hammerless gun without beads on the breech balls? It's a great letter. The gun, not so much, with mismatched barrels.

FrankenParker...




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Ridden hard and put away wet. I think the original owner was either doppy or hunted harder than most do.

"Make offer" Mikee's latest sxxm.

IMO it's a Grade 4 or CH gun with a CH grade stock with the correct drop points that has been re-checkered to the BH style. The gun pretty well speaks for itself. Unfortunately the original owner's wayward son destroyed the original barrels by cutting them, one to a length that would be impractical for any purpose other than cowboy action shooting and the Damascus barrels were cut to render them highly illegal.
The engraving is certainly that of the Grade 4 of that 1899 period.
Yes, The left breech face of the barrel is not aligned with the breech face of the frame's standing breech.

Personally, except as a parts gun, I wouldn't waste my money... but that's just me...





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A live bird shooter who was very active at the turn of the century, com’n Murphy cough up the details :corn:

What the hell was Mr. Jeffords doing with that gun to require all that work in the first three years of its life?