Length of pull
 

How do I determine the correct length of pull for me?
And part B
Opinions on altering a decent 12g Trojan so it might fit a little better.
Thanks
Clark

Clark,
There are a lot variables for proper gun fit beyond LOP. Might be worth doing something like this before having a stock altered or made.

https://www.woodcockhill.com/gunfitting

I’ve been shooting a variety of off the rack guns for 45 years, most of which have LOP of around 14.25-14.50”; when I got into double guns I
had many outfitted with recoil pads and brought the LOP to 14 7/8”-15”. I’d say I shoot the universe of guns I have relatively well, regardless of LOP…I think other aspects of proper gun fit are equally important. I’ve never been fitted, probably should…I guess I gravitate to the guns I shoot best. I probably carry my benelli ultralight 12 more than any other, partly because I pheasant hunt a lot, and I like 3 shots…that gun is very lethal for me, it’s around 14 3/8” LOP, but of course I’ve got more clothing on now vs early September hunting prairie grouse with a double with 15” LOP. I’d look at guns you’ve shot decently in the past as a starting point.

Get fitted by someone who knows how…and realize those measurements will change as you age.

I had a gun fit done at Michael Murphy and Sons about 15 yers ago. I used these basic measurements to have a number of guns I owned adjusted, as well as stocks bent or altered.
I also had several stocks made to these specs.
It was money well spent.
For me having a professional gun fit definitely was the single best thing I did to make me a better wing shot.

There are many factors in proper gun fit. LOP, Drop, Cast and Pitch all play a part. And then you need to consider what game you are playing, ie pre-mounted or low gun. Interestingly enough, I went over to the trap field this afternoon for a couple rounds of practice and a large part of my practice is making sure I have the same mount every time I put the gun to my shoulder. The Parker SBT I shoot singles with has a 14 3/8 inch LOP. Shot my first 25 with a sweater on and dropped 2 targets. The gun mount just didn't feel quite right. Pulled off the sweater and ran the next 25. I really don't like shooting in cold weather and my averages always go down this time of year. Extra layers change the fit of the gun and cost me targets.

Fit is important, but I had a friend who was fitted by a knowledgeable person, and he became obsessed that he could never shoot a gun that was even 1/16" off "The real numbers".

Phil, Michael did my fitting also. I had two guns made to my measurements and shot them well. To John Dallas’ point, I found that I could shoot guns that were close, but not perfect. I’d rather shoot a vintage gun that is close than one spot on. If I was a competitive shooter, I’d probably feel differently, but my limiting myself to shorter, high percentage hunting shots makes a close fit close enough…for me.

Garry Im with you Im not a competitive shooter. I can shoot most guns that are between 13 3/4 to 14 1/2”. I like guns with some cast on as I shoot left handed. The drop and pitch are the most important to me.
Im not a trap or skeet shooter. I maybe go to the range a few times a year. If I ever shoot a 25 I will be celebrating.
Shooting dove and quail are my passion and will normally take 3 to 5 guns with me to shoot. May start with a 410 and have even been known to finish up with my 8 gauge on Eurasian dove and Pigeons.
I do like shooting the guns that fit, as they naturally point and kill well for me. Once I get my lead figured out.
On flushing quail over my dogs the fitted guns just flat shoot where Im looking.

Drop and pitch are as important, if not more so, than LOP. My dad was a beefier guy than I am, but his favorite gun was his first gun; a VH 16 which he bought at the Cherry Street office of Parker Brothers, on his 16th birthday. that gun has a 13 3/4" LOP and 2 3/4" DAH. He was a firm believer that if your nose didn't hit your thumb, it wasn't too short.

A really good place to start is to measure dimensions on another gun/guns that you have that you feel fit you and that you shoot well.

That can be a starting point.

I took my daughter to a fancy place to at least have her try the feel of a new gun for a birthday / graduation present.
I was surprised when I saw how just half an inch changed the way she held the gun.
I guess fitting is the way to go, but a couple of these guns I don’t want to touch even if they’re off.
The Parker’s I have vary from 14 to a long of almost 15 1/4. A hundred years ago someone had long arms.

Good advice,
Thank you all

Gun fitting can be a slippery slope that leads to no gun you own or find fitting you and you end up not being comfortable with anything unless it is custom stocked.

And some are very adaptable and can shoot a variety of guns.

I grew up in a time when most of us just shot whatever guns our fathers owned, or whatever was just laying around. Maybe, if you were lucky, your dad took you down to Western Auto or Coast to Coast and bought you a gun of your own. Heck; I’d be afraid to have a “fitting”; I’d probably find out I can’t shoot any gun I own :)!

I take a different gun after doves each day. When I only had a few guns after quail it was a Beretta AL2 with a one inch pad added. Now I shoot whatever gun I take and don't worry. Some I shoot better than others. A Beretta 686 does the best followed by an A5 Browning. Both have 1" pads added. But all of the American Doubles like a Trojan, SW, NID, Model 24, Nitro Special, etc. all resemble each other with about the same drop, LOP, etc. I just add a slip on pad. I had rather enjoy a different gun and not worry about altering each one. I was always told to put the gun in your hand and have your finger on the trigger, and the length should go to the crook of one's arm. Maybe an old wive's tale, but it seems to work as all standard stock over the counter guns need a pad for me at 6'2", and the pad also adds drop for me due to the extra buttplate to shoulder area.

Jack O'Connor once wrote that most people shoot a rifle with a LOP that is too long, and a shotgun with a LOP that is too short. Not that I think everything JO wrote is gospel, but after having been fitted many years ago, at the beginning of my stint in the NSCA that ended in Master class, I have to agree that for much of my life my shotguns were too short in the length of pull.

However, the right LOP for pre-mounted clays is usually a bit longer than the ideal for "low gun" or field shooting, especially so for colder weather.

As to how to find the best LOP for you . . . . . before I started any changes I would spend $30 for a copy of The Stockfitter's Bible by Rollin Oswald.

A few nuggets of wisdom from that chapter to whet your appetite:

"A stock of slightly greater length tends to reduce felt recoil slightly."

"The length of the trigger-hand arm has little to do with stock length."

"Changing the LOP one-half inch will change the distance between the nose and the thumb approximately two inches in the same direction. The ratio is very close to 1:4. It is mysterious and, to my knowledge, has never been explained satisfactorily, but is accurate."

"The most important (stock) dimension (is) drop at comb."

If you buy this book and regret the purchase I will buy it from you at purchase price and give it to someone.

Altered stocks
 

If altering factory stocks is a sin, I am in big trouble. Files, Bandsaws, table saws, and dremels are all tools that I have used to make shooters fit.

I resemble that.

You sound like Bob Brister, Tom, one of my most admired shotgunners and shotgunning authors.

I just shoot ‘em.

If fit didn't matter I would have bought those size 13 boots that were for sale here.
Unfortunately I wear size 10 1/2.
I might have made them fit with an extra pair of socks and newspaper in the toe but I wouldn't have been happy.
I have lots of shotguns that don't fit me properly and would never alter them. These are usually quality guns that I shoot and just shoot them knowing that it wont be the most accurate shotgun I will use that day.

I am not familiar with how crossover stocks are made but having observed a number of them I had assumed that the wood was bent, and bent along with metal adjustment. These stocks have more cast than all of the stocks I had bent to my specs.

When shooting dove or pigeons I am not so concerned with fit. After all when shooting Eurasian dove and pigeons if I miss a bird, 10 more will be flying in shortly. I can easily shoot a flat of shells on each trip.
Quail hunting on the other hand Im not sure I have shot up a flat of shells, over my dogs during the whole season.

When shooting quail over my dogs I want a gun that seems to just naturally comes up and shoots where I am looking, which is the bird scooting through the trees.
After all I hate to disappoint my dogs.

Knowing your measurements is a great start
 

I agree with Brian it is important that you know your measurements. You can alter shooters or buy collectors that are close to your dimensions. I have passed on many desirable guns because I knew I could not shoot them well as they would not fit. The collectors that fit are shooters as well. If you don't shoot them I believe they own you instead of the other way around.

Amen to that!