old gun, new shells
 

A novice question:
is it advisable or safe, to use new shells in an old gun, specifically 1 oz steel shot 1165 fps in a 1918 16 ga.
or 1 oz steel 1325 fps in a 1928 12 ga.
Now that I have these Parkers, I'm almost afraid to use them after doing some reading.
My son was looking at a new Beretta. I was trying to talk him out of it, but now Im not so sure...

Don’t use steel shot - there alternatives in the realm of non-tox ammo. And besides, that’s too stiff of a load for those barrels and 100+ year old wood.

Be kind to your old guns. Shop around for appropriate loads. I try to stay below 1175 fps and below 7,000 lbs chamber pressure.

RST makes appropriate loads for your guns and they kill just as well.





.

I was just recently made aware of this offering to those of us with short chambered vintage guns. Looks like a viable option.

Twelve gauge, 2.5", 6100 psi, 1170 fps. Also available in 16 ga. Now, if they'll just offer it in 20 . . . . .

https://claysammo.com/armusa-12-ga-2...free-shipping/

Thank you Stan,
Im learning something everyday!

Clark, have you had your guns inspected by a knowledgeable person? Do you know the barrel wall thickness (bwt) of them? Always good to be safe.

Hi Garry,
I was reading about barrel wall thickness last night. I doubt the local gun shop would be able to measure.
Is there an annual meeting of the PGCA in the northeast where someone might have a look give an opinion?

Spring Southern Side by Side in Sanford, NC. April.

Clark,

The Ace hardware in Hampton Bays is operated by a gunsmith who has a shop in the rear. Give the store a call. If I remember correctly he has a wall thickness gauge. A friend in St. James has one as well.

Gary Downy, Osprey Arms, in Central Islip also has one.

See you Friday.

John

What a deep rabbit hole I'm following.. not as simple as "point and shoot"
it's great fun and a great education!

Says the guy who's too cheap to pay $40 a year for an annual PGCA membership.

Clark, as the old expression goes,"Horses For Courses". There are plenty of Bismuth choices for using your Parkers for ducks. You're only going to shoot up a few boxes a year. If using inexpensive ammo is your criteria, buy the Beretta.
I may be at the far end off the spectrum, but I haven't bought a box of shotshells in many years because I load everything with recipes designed for the guns I shoot. It isn't to save a few bucks, it's to be able to shoot all of my Parkers.

I am shooting my way through 30 flats of Armusa in my O/U's and it's great ammo. It's 2 3/4", 1oz #8 1250fps we paid $90 a flat delivered from our distributor who shoots bunker in Binghamton twice a year. I'm going to see if he can get these, they look great.

They'll be alright if he's looking for hunting loads. All they have right now are #5 and #6. They are out of #7 1/2.

More than you probably want to read Clark, but this might be helpful
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads...-shoot.366087/

We know the loads that Parker recommended and now have good data as to the pressures those loads generated. It is prudent to use lower recoiling loads in our vintage doubles however.

As Drew stated, no need to beat the snot out of those 100 year old wooden stocks.

I have ordered from them and received the 12GA rounds. The 16GA will not be available until January according to the website. I ordered two cases of the 16GA shells. The 16's are only available in 7 1/2 shot size currently.

I have yet to fire any of the rounds I have received from them.

I use the 2.5” Gamebore Regal 28gram #5 and #6 in my 1913 Hooton and Jones and Parker VH for pheasants, Partridge and Grouse and they extract fine and don’t in my opinion have much felt recoil in the light weight gun. That being said I haven’t shot any out of any of my Damascus guns but know a guy with a GH that uses them every year for grouse when he goes moose hunting they definitely aren’t the most economical shells in Canada but the quality of the hulls are nice for reloading.

I never hesitate to shoot them in my “Damascus” guns as long as the loads don’t exceed the pressures these guns were made to shoot… and I always shoot shells that are length-appropriate to my measured chamber depths.





.

I noticed a vendor in our Parker Pages magazine and decided to give them a try. They make low pressure/low velocity shells. This ammo works well for me. I use number four shot in 12 gauge. I see they also have 16. Salt Creek Ammo
https://saltcreekammo.com/products/l...muth-20-rounds

I used Salt Creek with my Trojan 12 and they killed ducks just fine.

But my favorite is Boss 16 gauge 3 drams #5 through my 16 Trojan as well as Boss 2 3/4" 3/5 through the Trojan 12. The Boss aren't low pressure and aren't short chambered but I'm not too concerned.

My grandfather ran 2 3/4" Remington Express and Winchester Super X through them just fine.

The wood seems to handle it fine. If you are shooting ducks and pheasants it's not like you are pounding hundreds of rounds down range.

I did have the barrels checked out by Kirk Merrington before I proceeded.

Great information,
Thank you to all.
My idea of fun would be to get to know this old gun as I have gotten to know an old tractor I use. It has its characteristics and quirks, the way it sounds and handles means something to me. No one can just jump on it and expect to get it started and run flawlessly.
I expect the Parker is the same way - incredible craftsmanship - but also requires the respect it deserves to perform as it is capable of.

You're absolutely correct Clark. To own and shoot a Parker we form a special relationship with them and respect for the craftsmen who made these fine sxs's.

Another question :)
What does “overload” mean
Stamped under the barrels
Apparently by someone else
Does not look very professional

This? The Parker Bros. Overload Proved stamp first appeared about 1925

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers...926%20DH-L.jpg

A Parker Service and Proof Load table was published in the 1930s and reproduced in the The Parker Story p. 515.
12g 2 3/4” shell service pressure was listed as 10,500 psi.
Definitive proof used 7.53 Drams Black Powder and 2 oz. shot with a pressure of 15,900 psi. The pressure was no doubt measured using LUP and modern transducer values would be 10-14% higher, or more than 17,500 psi.

LTC Calvin Goddard reported the same numbers in “Army Ordnance”, 1934. He wrote that Parker followed the SAAMI standards of that period: 13,700 psi proof, 9500 psi service for 2 5/8” chamber; 15,900 psi proof, 10,500 psi service for 2 3/4” chamber (by LUP) + 10-14% for modern transducer measurement.

Yes
This shows up on my second Parker
A 1928 12 ga
I still don’t plan to use anything other than the lights rounds :)
Thank you

pardon my attempts to upload picture - not as easy as drag it over !Attachment 130437

maybe this worked!
now my questions
is this a 2 grade ? meaning weight?
and the rest of the markings?
I really appreciate the patience of the members
Happy New Year

A 2 frame 12 gauge with unstruck barrel weight of 3 pounds, 15 ounces.

Good Morning,
Would there be a reason not to use the AA shells?
They appear to be a very light load. I have used
Would appreciate a comparison of the two.
Thank You !

This is old independent testing data. Winchester declines to share pressure data. FPS and PSI

AA ‘Low noise Low recoil’ 15/16 oz. AA12FL 980 6,200
Old AACF Xtra-Lite 1 oz. WAAL12 1,190 8,000
New AAHS Xtra-Lite Target 1 oz. AAL12 1,180 8,760
Old AA 3 Dr. Eq. 1 1/8 oz. Trap WW12AAP 1,200 9,600
Super-Target 1 oz. TRGTL12 1,200 10,440
Super Sport Sporting Clays 1 1/8 oz. AASC12 1,360 11,660

IMHO if barrels are unsafe with 1 oz. at 1200 fps loads, they are unsafe.

It looks like then the AA low noise are ok?
They’re available locally to me for about $17 a box

Those are ridiculously light. I think you're over reacting.

A #2 frame Parker will digest 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz 1200 fps all day long. Just buy what Walmart has available.

Hard to beat the Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 1 ounce at 1200 fps for both price, performance and a gentle loading. Natchez has them on sale right now. Occasionally they offer $5 flat rate shipping or free shipping over $99. Keep an eye on their site.

https://www.natchezss.com/fiocchi-12...25rd-xn12sd1h8

Thinking it all through here. I don’t want to do damage to gun or fingers.
My 12 ga is a 2 frame
The 16 ga is a 1 1/2
Being a smaller gun I would imagine 1 1/8 oz would cause more pressure ?
Both guns are Trojans and are tight. Barrel wall thickness has not been checked.
Now that I’m getting deeper I was thinking of investing in the bench mic tool.
Would gladly share if I decide to get it.

Natchezss has free shipping on ammo over $250 right now.

I'm trying to be cautious with these old Parkers.
just received a chamber gauge from Connecticut Shotgun. According to the gauge, the Parkers I have are all 2 1/2 chambers. I was lead to believe that the one Parker that was stamped overload had 2 3/4 chambers and I was using 2 3/4 shells in that one. It was only with this new gauge that I was able to measure accurately. Is it unwise/unsafe to use 2 3/4 shells in a gun with 2 1/2 chambers? I know the shells fit just fine, but it is as they are fired and open up that the length of the shell exceeds the length of the chamber.

Are you sure they don’t measure 2 5/8, which are intended for 2 3/4 inch shells.

Looks to me like 2 1/2
2 5/8 should be halfway to 3/4

Yes that’s 2 1/2” and no, you shouldn’t use 2 3/4” shells.
They fit because the measurement of the chambers are for open (fired) shells. Open 2 3/4” shrells would NOT fit without pushing them hard.





.

That's what I was afraid of. Big difference in availability and cost between 1/2 and 3/4 shells. Also have a 16 ga chambered this way for 2 1/2 and this shells are out of stock. Looks like next step is to reload.