176xxx S/N SBT no grade on water table
 

Hi all,

Am interested in a “pristine” 1917 made SBT with what appears to be a Gold Dove on black on the bottom of the receiver. Don’t have much else yet but it is pristine and all original wood. No mods - cannot yet post photos but if how I have described this is accurate, does anyone wish to hazard a reasonable value? I have also shot this gun with reduced velocity #8 and it’s a shooter. Oh and did I mention pristine? Any help will be most appreciated.

You need to post photos of the gun in order for anyone to provide you with any sort of feedback on the gun.
All I can say is that if it has a gold bird, and “black” on it, it likely is not original as you state. It sounds like it is embellished after it was built.

Thank you, Brian - as I wondered - it is beautiful and sat in a well curated safe since the 1920s but I could not find anything like it. I have these photos for now

None of the metal finishes are original. I can tell you that from the one photo of the gun.

It is an embellished and poorly refinished SC grade.

Thank you - so, even with that, is the value above or below $5k and if so by how much? I’m a newbie to Parker and even with its heritage I don’t want to invest without due diligence

It is worth well below that. You can usually get an honest original and unmolested gun for around $3-3500. And this one is not that.

The wood itself may be original, but someone messed with that too by adding the carving on the forend. The butt looks refinished too.

Well then, I am disappointed but better educated for the experience. Thank you again

Here is a photo of a VERY NICE original SC. Only the pad is not original.
For an example pf how one should look.

Attachment 127972

Attachment 127973Now that is quite something — does this photo shed any light on the gun?

There is a very nice one in the for-sale section right now. If you pony up the $40 for a membership, you'll be able to take a look at it.

The SC listed for sale on this site right now is priced at $2750.00, a price that may be negotiated lower. An SC in the mid threes would probably be very original and fairly high condition.

Thanks Chris and Bill — I really don’t know enough to invest in one although they are quite beautiful. Tell me, are there still folks who work on them?

Many new folks use the term invest. If a return is what you want i suggest an exchange traded fund. Historically a Parker, unless one of a kind, in perfect condition, sells for less now than new taking into account inflation.

Buying is the easy part, for retail, selling for more than wholesale the hard part. Unless you are buying to shoot and enjoy steer your money to the market.

Woodcock survey,

I meant invest as in put money into one, not to make money on it — my options for shooting clays are somewhat limited near me so its a thinker as to whether or not to go with a 100 year old gun vs a used Perazzi or something similar. However, having shot the Parker, I can say I like it very much. Thank you very much and I apologize for suggesting invest in the way it came across.

They are great fun to own and shoot, and of course they don't have to be "original" or "perfect" to shoot and enjoy, but you don't want to overpay, and frankly a SBT will probably only be worth what it's worth today or less; don't look for much if any increase in market value (if that makes sense?). I've never had any major work done on mine but I have had the trigger reworked, so there are gunsmiths out there who can work on them.

Thank you, Phil — based on the info an photos of the one I have posted, and based on Bill Dudley’s input would it be safe to say the gun in question is a $2k gun or would it be less? Mechanically it is perfect, but with refinished and embellished metal and an insert on the butt stock, I have no idea what is “fair”

I would recommend walking away from this gun if you are wanting to buy one and look for one that is right. Let it be someone else's problem. A bad gun is a bad gun at any price.

Yup, I would hold out for one with original finish and unmodified wood, even if I had to pay up for it. They are not hard to find. I have found a baggo them. By the way, it's not a dove, it's a pigeon.

There are many here who are much more knowledgeable than I, and certainly more particular :); if I'm buying a gun as a shooter, originality is not as important to me as it is to some, so long as the lack of originality is reflected in the price. One downside of a gun that's not original can be, what else has been done to it, and have things been done that will affect it mechanically? Why did someone choose to blacken the trigger plate or make the pigeon gold; is it paint or some chemical process or...? Does the extra carving on the forend mean a replacement, etc.? Hard to tell from the pic but the receiver looks really shiny; has it been polished or buffed? If you really like the gun and can establish that the issues are largely cosmetic, I think I'd want to pay under $2K for it.

The folks here telling you to walk away told me the same thing when I bought Orphan Annie, my Parker SBT, but for the price I paid she and I have been very happy together :whistle:.

I don't think I would have told you to walk away from Orphan Annie because choke was evident at the 27" level as I recall. Condition wasn't an issue, again, as I recall.

Bill, I honestly don't remember who all commented when I first asked for help here when I was considering Annie, but the consensus was that the barrel had been chopped, ergo probably no choke remained (I later disproved that and wrote about it in Parker pages) but as I recall everyone who did comment suggested I run - not walk - away. Agree that condition was some better than the example presented here. I'm not even advocating that James buy the gun; just pointing out that a gun needn't be perfect to be a nice shooter and a joy to own. In my meager collection, if I'd let every flaw chase me off, the collection would be MUCH smaller :)

James, the pic you posted shows that the gun has been well used and appears that it has had some peening or other type of metal work done to it. It appears there is NOTHING original or pristine about this gun. As others have said there are much better examples out there for much lower than $5K. Good luck and welcome to the world of Parkeritis!!

Someone has peened the heck out of the barrel lug, to probably make it tighter. Knocks off even more of the value. If it is not loose now, it was at one time or check the serial number on all three parts. Could be the barrel came off another gun and it is a mongrel.

Well for whats its worth the main thing with me is "does the gun fit you" Of course if you are not going shoot it why buy it? Gary

Amen.

For me, it has to fit me and be 'right'.

In the vein of "who is John Galt," who is "Bill Dudley?"